Pine Street Jct - MK Jct - Old East Belt

Discussion in 'Springfield Terminal' started by Karl, May 3, 2013.

  1. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    I found some old notes and sketches that I made ages ago, and put them together in these diagrams. Take a look and see how good my notes are.

    After CTC was installed on the Old East Belt, and before the New East Belt was built during 1960, the area depicted in these diagrams saw Lebanon Sub, Clinton Sub, and Willow Springs Sub passenger traffic and Willow Springs and Ozark Br freight traffic. The area is full of industries, and local switching moves occurred around the clock. The Clinton Sub passenger trains were the first to disappear, and after the Willow Springs Sub freights were routed over the New East Belt, only the mainline passenger trains, Ozark Br traffic, and the local switching remained.

    With the demise of the Oklahoman and the Southland, only the local traffic and Ozark Br trains remained. In spite of the much lower traffic levels, the Frisco did not alter the signaling or track arrangement until about 1975. During this time, it removed the signals, the MK Jct passing track, and the MP crossing. Around 1978 or 1979, the Frisco severed the line between Cherry Street and WS Junction.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2013
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  2. John Sanders

    John Sanders Member

    Attached is a photo from about September 1974 of MK junction before they had removed the CTC equipment. I will rescan this and other slides from this area...when I can locate them.

    John Sanders
    Springfield, MO
     

    Attached Files:

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  3. Brad Slone

    Brad Slone Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I have always found this a very fascinating corner of the Frisco, one that would not require a huge area to model fitting a linear foot print and full of operating. I thought Pat Hiatte's article in Trains several years ago was full of information, I still read through it from time to time. If I ever decided to model a different area of the railroad this Pine & Mill street areas would definitely make the short list.

    Brad Slone
     
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  4. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Brad, you were about 21 minutes ahead of me on this thought. I'd never realized what kind of modeling potential existed here. Karl's notes and John's photo are a great starting point for constructing a nice, achievable "layout design element."

    Best Regards,
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2013
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  5. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Karl,

    For a long time, I've had a dream of building a layout based on the Ozark branch, starting at Glenstone and going South.

    Posts like this, and the recent Springfield industry diagrams, make me want to start at MK Junction... or further north...

    One question. Are the tracks you have labelled as "storage yd" on the Phelps St. trackage the old team track that starts
    under the Benton Ave viaduct?

    Paul
     
  6. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    If you're thinking of modeling the Springfield locale, the MK Jct. area would give you all kinds of believable traffic ideas: If you modeled before the 1960-61 period (Before the new East Belt), the Thayer Sub mainline and local freights and all the Springfield passenger trains passed through the area. There was also a period in the 1950's (Karl can help with the timeline here) that the Highline local passed here, going up the old East Belt and west through the North Yard on its way out of town (I'm not sure if the southbound arriving Highline train returned through here??). That's in addition to all the downtown switching moves and traffic on the Ozark ("Chadwick Line") Branch. When I first saw Karl's MK drawing, the light came on for me that the MK Jct. area is an ideal place to start a layout with a Springfield theme.

    Tom G.

    Edit: I might add that you could also logically add some Missouri Pacific movements if you were to model the MK Jct. area. The MP serviced businesses along their own right of way, but also did along the Phelps Street corridor. At night the MP delivered cars to the M-F-A mill that was on the north side of Phelps between Boonville and Jefferson Avenues. There were some tracks east of Jefferson on Phelps where the MP and Frisco swapped cars with each other. Each road picked up cars and left cars for the other line on those tracks. There also was motor vehicle traffic in the Phelps corridor. There was (very rough) pavement where trucks and autos shared street traffic on Phelps between a couple of blocks east of Jefferson to west of Campbell Avenue.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2013
  7. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter


    The "storage yard" is under the Benton Ave Viaduct. When I saw switch crews work the industries (especially the big MFA mill at Boonville) on Phelps Street, they used these tracks to work from. They would shove inbound cars in the yard first, pull the outbound cars from the industry, and then put them into a vacant yard track. They would grab a cut of inbound cars from the yard, and shove them back down Phelps to the appropriate industry. As necessary, the crews would use the run around track to position the locomotive properly. All of this as you know was "street" trackage, and one could drive along as the crew worked.
     
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  8. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Thanks Karl! Little operational details like this really help.

    And John, thanks for the picture. I'll take any more you can find like this.

    Now I just need a permanent layout space large enough to build the layout iave in mind.

    Paul
     
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  9. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    If anyone is confused by the references to "Pine Street Junction" or trying to find Pine Street on a map, Pine Street is now called Tampa Street in Springfield.

    Tom G.
     
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  10. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter


    Years ago when I first started looking through this, I just about went nuts looking for Pine Street. An old plat finally solved that problem.

    For those unfamiliar with Springfield, here's a post with a map that will place things in better context.

    http://www.frisco.org/shipit/index.php?threads/nichols-jct.1516/#post-8716
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 1, 2017
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  11. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Excellent point, Tom. Granted, we're "all" Frisco modelers here, but I always find it interesting to have a reason for foreign power to appear. If nothing else, having the connection to another road gives one's layout a way to get to other places and locales.

    Possibly a related question: what type of motive power would the Frisco have used in in the 1960s for the local switching? I think the SW1500s came in the late 60s or early 70s?

    Thanks very much for the operational information. Overall, this thread has provided a lot of enjoyment already this weekend!
     
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  12. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    From all of the photos I have seen, EMD and Baldwin switchers( including the repowered ones ) were common in the Springfield area.

    Paul
     
  13. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Thanks for that operational detail.

    When the MoPac severed thier line between Battlefield and Crane, they accessed what remained of thier Springfield trackage via trackage rights from Aurora ( I believe ). In Springfield, the old passenger main was used from Nicohols to South yard to gain access to MoPac trackage.

    I would like to know what power the MoPac used on for thier Springfield trains. I have never seen any pictures of the MoPac working Springfield, and the only train I ever saw on the MoPac trackage growing up was headed by a UP engine.

    Paul
     
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  14. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    Most all the MP switching was done at night. I worked at the Springfield Post Office Mail Handing Facility from 1969 to 1986 which was at 405 N. Jefferson, just across the tracks and Phelps Street from the M-F-A mill. The MP delivered cars and switched most every night in the vicinity. The engines were EMD geeps (Probably GP-7, GP-9, GP-18 etc.) and similar ALCO units (Probably RS-11's or similar). I'm not familiar enough with the MP diesel roster to recite exact models and numbers. The engines were in both (faded) Eagle and fresher Jenks Blue paint schemes. The Frisco switching was in the daytime with b/y yard switchers. Sometime during this period, the MP began the re-route over the Frisco from Aurora.

    Tom G.
     
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  15. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    As Tom states, MP operations in the MK Jct area and along Phelps Street tended to be nocturnal, so I was surprised when I caught a "Four Piper" GP-38-2 and cars entering the Frisco at MK Jct during daylight hours, Jan 1983. The locomotive is facing east (compass).

    mp_2148_mk_jct_jan_83_ed.jpg
     
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  16. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I was looking at MP photos for a project I am thinking about, and I ran across the "Screaming Eagles" website.

    The site has several 1955-1961 Arthur Johnson photos in Springfield of
    MP 44-tonners: http://www.trainweb.org/screamingeagle/loco_switcher.html
    MP GP7s: http://www.trainweb.org/screamingeagle/loco_1gen_gp7.html
    And MP RS3s: http://www.trainweb.org/screamingeagle/loco_1gen_rs.html

    (Not links to the specific images, but search for Springfield on the pages above)

    These are all from the time when the MP's branch from Crane was still intact. The only landmarks I recognize in the pictures are near downtown Springfield, not far from the MP freight house and the Frisco's station.

    There is also a 1981 Photo of an MP B23-7 on this page:
    http://www.trainweb.org/screamingeagle/loco_2gen_bb.html

    That would have arrived in Springfield over the Frisco.

    Paul
     
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  17. Joe Lovett

    Joe Lovett Member

    Thank you Paul for posting the links to Missouri Pacific website. I've been looking for a good MP website. MP is my second favorite railroad with Frisco being first.

    Joe
     
  18. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Joe - Also take a look at the Missouri Pacific Historical Society. It is excellent.
    I've been a member for years. I have every issue of their excellent publication The Eagle.

    www.mopac.org

    Ken
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2017
  19. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I just found something else of interest relative to MK junction, a photo from the John Barriger III collection of the Junction:

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12239126243/in/album-72157640360511664/

    Date unknown, but lots of details...

    Does anyone know if these are related:

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12239521906/in/album-72157640360511664/
    (the previous photo in the album)

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/12238942715/in/album-72157640360511664/
    (It's the next photo in the album).



    Paul
     
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  20. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    These were taken from the rear platform of business car number 2, which was tacked to the rear of 108. Barriger was touring the Frisco and was returning after getting a first-hand look at Tennessee Yard and the Mudlines. I believe the date to be circa 1961-1962
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2018

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