Passenger Train Diesel Engine Assignments

Discussion in 'Passenger Operations' started by kenmc, Dec 22, 2016.

  1. kenmc

    kenmc KenMc Supporter

    I was reflecting on this topic and observed that the railroads that bought FP-7s either intended them for primary passenger service, or they planned to use them as secondary power and re-purposed eventually for freight service only, after the passenger train miles had been sufficiently reduced in the cutbacks of the early 1950s. You can tell which intent was operative by the color schemes of the units, whether they were "passenger" or "freight" colors. For example, the L&N, C&O, Milwaukee Road, WP and Rock Island painted their FP-7s in passenger colors, whereas the SP and Frisco employed color schemes to match their freight units. If so, the cutbacks in Frisco passenger trains during that decade was a foregone conclusion by the railroad's management.

    Ken McElreath
  2. pbender

    pbender Member Supporter

    Lack of photos is an issue with all of Frisco's. B units.

    Here is a photo of an E8A that shows the steam line height pretty well:

    The steam heat line is the metal pipe below the coupler.

    One other interesting note, I see no evidence that the Frisco ever installed front end MU connections on any of the E units, so it wasn't actually possible for 3 Frisco E units to work together on a train with a single engine crew.

    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 21, 2017
  3. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Paul your inference is correct, the Frisco E units did not have M/U connections on the front end. That's why additional power beyond two E units required additional locomotives of another type, A or B, between two E units.
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2017
  4. Larry F.

    Larry F. Member

    Nice photo but does anyone know why 2019 is coupled to a steam generator car...seems kinda redundant?!? Larry F.
  5. Larry F.

    Larry F. Member

    A thought on E unit nose mu's: In the book Frisco In Color-Volume 2, there is a shot of 2001 (an E7) in the y/r cigar band scheme that appears to have a nose mu door and also on Mike Condren's site there is a shot of 2004 with the same door. Are these in fact mu doors or something else. I've seen no evidence of these doors on the E8s, though.

    Attached Files:

  6. pbender

    pbender Member Supporter

    I think that photo may have been taken at the shops. There isn't anything in the background that makes me think it was taken near the depot.

  7. pbender

    pbender Member Supporter

    Interesting, I went back and looked at other EA7 photos on the Frisco archives, and even the builders photo has that door:

    If that is a nose MU connection (and I'm not saying one way or the other whether it is) it was installed by EMD at the factory. From the photos, All 6 of the EA7s have that door.

  8. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Supporter

  9. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Supporter

    I found a photo of 2001, page 68 of Marre's Frisco Diesel Power and it does have a door to the left of the headlights. I'm really wondering now if that door is an MU door (This door looks like the doors on the F-units). I've scoured Frisco photos for years and never saw any photo of an E-unit lashed up to other units by the nose?? I'd sure like to find out if they did fit E-units for MUing nose-wise. I thought sure Marre would have written SOMETHING about it!!??

    Tom G.

    PS: Paul what's your opinion? Do you think those are MU doors? Could they be sand filler doors?
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2017
  10. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Supporter

    In order to run two units as one locomotive, not only is it necessary to connect the prime mover controls, it is also necessary to connect each brake system of every unit in the locomotive consist. The E's also lacked Main Reservoir Equalizing connections, Actuating connections, Brake Cylinder connections, and Sanding Pipe connections on the cab end, and so multiple operations were not possible from that cab end of a Frisco E-unit.

    The sand boxes and fillers were located on the sides of each unit. See attached locomotive diagram.

    Attached Files:

  11. pbender

    pbender Member Supporter

    I have no idea what it was for. I did a quick search for E7 images on the web and found a similar door on a PRR one that also lacked the required hoses for MUing ( as Karl's post reminds us).

    Also, I noticed on the Frisco F units that were equipped ( by Frisco shop forces ) with MU, there were two doors, on in each side of the headlight.

    Last edited: Jan 22, 2017
  12. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Supporter

  13. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    If you look closely at the pictures of our EA7s, you will notice that it appears that the door is welded shut or is a door made into a blind plate. EA7s delivered to other roads have M/U connections on both sides of the upper headlight.
    For example, CB&Q #9919A was so-equipped; One can clearly see the doors and their edges. Also note that it has an A unit MUed to it nose to tail.

    Looking at more photos of other EA7s, I see that ones built after ours (serial numbers higher) only have one door; on the fireman's side of the headlight.
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017
  14. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Supporter

    How can you tell if it's welded shut, and not just shut (closed)???

    Tom G.
  15. Douglas wayne

    Douglas wayne Member

    Maybe it's like a car from that era, might not come with a radio but still had a place for one?
  16. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Supporter

    Look closely how there is no gap; the paint fully spans where there would have been a gap between the door and the body.
  17. friscochoctaw

    friscochoctaw Member


    If you are wanting a mainline passenger train that would have been run on the Central Division to run on your layout, my dad recalled a few times growing up in Hugo seeing KCS passenger trains running through. Having asked the question on this forum a couple of years ago it revealed that the KCS had a couple of accidents and I think a washout on their line that caused reroutes from Ashdown, AR going West on the AA to Hugo and then North via the Central Div. to either Fort Smith, AR or Poteau, OK where it rejoined KCS trackage. (Sorry, I do not know exactly what KCS train made the detour, though.)


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