Discussion in 'Passenger Operations' started by yardmaster, Mar 1, 2009.
See my response in Red
Ken, never say never. I have a photo of one of the 0-6-0s at Newburg, and I'm sure they switched there. After all, the 1200s-1300s weren't always used as yard power since they worked the mainline.
The Salem Branch engines tied up at Cuba by the turntable.
Thanks for the info on the passenger operation at KCUS. I will check my Railroad Quarterly tonight to get you the details on the issue/vol/date in question.
I have a few more questions if you don't mind.
Since yard engines pulled the trains in tail first,
1. Where did the road power cut off from the train and the switcher take over? 19th St Yard?
2. Was this a fast operation because the passengers were still on board, right?
3. I am guessing that they used a VO1000 to do the switching in the 1947-50 timeframe unless you specify otherwise.
4. Also guessing that the road power for south bounds would back into Union Station an onto their train, right?
Thanks for your help. The actual operation is much more interesting that just taking the train engine-first to Union Station.
Ship IT on the Frisco!
Here’s the drill… at least during the 60’s.
Northbound Frisco passenger trains arrived at KCUS, and they stopped with the train pointed eastward. The passengers disembarked. The working baggage/express car(s) was emptied of the checked baggage and express; the RPO was emptied of its mail. When this had been completed, and if the train had cars of sealed mail or sealed express, a KCT locomotive would cut these cars from the train. The train would be re-assembled. After this operation had been completed, a Frisco yard engine would drag the whole shebang to 19th Street , where the cars would be cleaned and serviced; the motive power would likewise be serviced.
After the cars and motive power had been serviced at 19th Street, the outbound train was reassembled with power, and pulled back to KCUS by a Frisco yard engine. The train was pointed westward. Once back at KCUS, outbound cars of sealed express or sealed mail were added to the train. Outbound mail was loaded to the RPO, and express destined for Frisco points was loaded to the working express/baggage car. Checked baggage was loaded, the passengers boarded, and the train departed.
I have several “pamplets” which cover the operating agreement between the Frisco and the “transportation unions”. As I recall, they stated that KCUS is the originating/terminating point for passenger crews. Consequently, I believe that the 1960’s practice was similar to other post-war periods
I don’t know what locomotives were used during the late 40’s-early 50’s. During the early 60’s, the Baldwin VO’s handled the KCUS transfer.
This operation was unique to the Frisco and only one other KC road, who serviced their own passenger equipment.
Great information. Thanks for helping me out. This is more work for my operating crews and I think they will find it very interesting.
Ship IT on the Frisco!
Simply splendid info, Karl - I'm already picturing how it's going to look on the layout. Many thanks,
>>>This operation was unique to the Frisco and only one other KC road, who serviced their own passenger equipment.<<<
Was the other railroad ATSF?
You may be correct about that. I can't remember for certain what the other RR was. The ATSF does seem to strike a memory chord of being the other RR.
I posted a photo of 3744 to "Gordon's Album"/. It was taken in Fort Smith in 1945, probably by Charles Winters.
Gordon - You are correct, 3744 is good looking little puppy! Thanks.
Rick and Karl, I believe you're correct - here's a snippet from the KCT section of the "Fallen Flags" site:
The Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe Railroad maintained their own coach yard just west of Santa Fe Junction at tower #3, known as the Fifth Street Yard. A train arriving at the station that was to go to the yard was met by a switchman/pilot. After unloading, the inbound engine crew and the pilot would take the train to the coach yard. Then the engine crew would take the engine to the Argentine roundhouse. The Santa Fe maintained this yard until 1969 when they and the Terminal Railway signed an agreement for the Terminal to take over the switching and servicing of equipment.
First a correction. I said earlier that I found a photo of a Frisco train backing into KCUS in a publication called Railroad Quarterly. The publication is actually Locomotive Quarterly. It was the Summer 1995 issue, Vol XVIII, Number 4, page 22.
The exact caption is
"Mountain 1522 eases slowly backward toward Kansas City Union Station with the equipment of Train 105, The Kansas City-Florida Special, July 3, 1947." The photo is by F. Wesley Krambeck.
I am guessing 105 is backing up through the KCT yard next to Southwest Blvd but you and others may have better bearings than I.
If you have this publication, check it out and tell m3 what you think.
Ship IT on the Frisco!
I think you're right about the location. I have shots of a couple of other engines doing the same thing. I need to hunt them up and post them. Seems like there's a water tank in one of them that would help you KCites identify the location.
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