Does anyone happen to have a copy any official paperwork showing the painting and lettering specifics for Frisco's 1910 built ACF Coach 1062. Our museum has this car and we run it weekly. We are getting information together to have it painted either this year, or next depending on some other mechanical work that needs to be done. We would like to paint it back in the Pullman Green paint scheme but need specifics for the placing, size both in Length and Width of the lettering, as well as exactly what color the lettering would have been. We have a sample of the pullman green paint, so that will not be an issue i dont think. There was some discussion among a few of our members as to the font used for the lettering as well as the exact color of the lettering and anything else that may have been painted but not painted in pullman greenm such as the roof. Some here say it was green, others say it wasnt. I figure if we have some "official" document with painting and lettering specifics, that should settle any of the questions. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Jeff, I remember that, when I would often see the Sunnyland running, I would marvel at how the "Pullman Green" could look anywhere from olive to black (but never really "green", as the Southern green was), depending on the lighting. The paint was a very high gloss paint, and that produced the results in various lights. You can really see this in one scene from a video that Revelation Audio/Visual productions made in the 1990s using film of the Sunnyland, Meteor and Will Rogers in the mid-60s. And the roofs were painted black, but that black would soon turn very gray/green from the weathering as well, so that it would appear to blend with the sides. I would recommend that you try to get as many photos and samples as you can, and then try to match them using modern paints. These paints retain their gloss much longer than the original. Same for the dulux gold; the originals had to be repainted every couple of years or they got cruddy looking. Best wishes. In my opinion, getting the color and hue right is as important any of the other details of the car, if you are trying to recreate the "geshtalt", as they say in German, of the prototype. Ken McElreath
If you're looking for published photographs of Frisco heavyweight passenger car colors and lettering, great examples would be the pictures in Marre and Sommers' Frisco In Color (Morning Sun, 1995) pages 119 and 120. There are pictures of the business cars "Saint Louis" and #2 and the coach/chair car "Okmulgee." The "Pullman" green colors in the photos show up well. Also the the dark gray roof color. If you don't have a copy of the book, which is really a "must have" for a Frisco rail fan, you can borrow it from your local library's inter-library service. I've collected Frisco passenger car photos and Frisco "stuff" for years and I've never seen any passenger car painting diagrams or charts. Tom G.
We have that book at our museum but matching paint by a photo is next to impossible. We went through try after try doing it that way with our Long Island Car and I Still think we are a couple of shades off. We are striving to get it correct if at all possible. We have a vintage 55Gallon drum of original Pullman Green paint that we are hoping is still good enough to get a working sample from. If Frisco never had any lettering and painting diagrams, they would be the only railroad I have ever seen that didnt. We can just make a best guess I suppose. Someone has great color and lettering specifics posted on here down to the dimensions of each letter and overall size of the text, unfortunately it is for turn of the century cars and not the 1910 era. SURELY something like that exists for more "modern" cars. Restoration sure can be a frustrating task sometimes. As alot of you probably know, as soon as we GUESSED on the paint and lettering and completed the car, nineteen people would email is to tell us something along the lines of "Frisco never did it that way", or "that color is all wrong", or "this part should have been painted this color", know what I mean? LOL
The RR museum at Frisco Texas has several pieces of equipment including a Frisco coach they have painted, they may have a solution?? If there's a paint diagram "out there" anywhere, it surely would have surfaced by now. There are lots of Frisco "eyeballs" looking for just that sort of stuff...
Yeah, you would think that someone would have something in writing that has specifics and what not though. It would be hard to believe that a document such as that doesn't still exist amongst all the railroad document and paper collectors out there. We have found more obscure information than this with a little research. It doesn't see that this would be that obscure, but maybe it is. Unfortunately there aren't a whole lot of sources to turn to for Frisco specific information like there are for other railroads.
So, can anyone tell me the correct shade of yellow, gold, or whatever the lettering was on Frisco heavyweight cars? Also, was the green color that they used actually "Pullman Green"? I have contacted a couple of museums that have Frisco cars that people recommended and have heard nothing back from them. Our museum really needs to find out all of the information as far as lettering and painting sooner than we had planned. We have Coach 1062 which was built in 1910 at our museum, and it is about to undergo new window installation and painting. Surely SOMEBODY on Frisco.org has or knows someone that has this information. Usually groups focusing on particular railroads are fanatical about the correct colors of paint and will tell you in no uncertain terms what you should be painting and how. LOL.
I've been looking for and collecting (photographs, passenger car consists, car diagrams, paint charts, lettering diagrams etc. etc.) for years and haven't ever seen any "official" Frisco passenger car painting data. There just might not be the kind of information you're needing on this chat board...
