Operations Scenario #1

Discussion in 'Operations' started by FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018), Jul 14, 2010.

  1. FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018)

    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018) Passed Away April 12, 2018 Frisco.org Supporter

    Since there seems to be increased interest in recreating opertions on our model railroads, I would lilke to try an experiment of sorts to see if it is a practical idea. This is to this point an experiment and I welcome ideas, feedback, and possibly other examples so here goes.

    I am labeling this as a scenerio and urge others to post threads under it if they feel so inclined (i.e. Scenerio #2, etc.)

    Atlas has just announced production of their 11,000 gallon LPG tank car in the Skelgas scheme for Anchor Petroleum in Tulsa, OK.

    http://www.atlasrr.com/NFreight/n11000tank5.htm

    These cars would have come in and out of Cherokee Yard on a regular basis from the early to mid '60 onward. This presents the scenerio as to here they went, etc. One would assume that it could have been small town propane distibutors across Frisco country and beyond.

    Does anyone have any ideas as to destinations from either first hand knowledge or better yet photos of these kinds of movements and industries.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. tmfrisco

    tmfrisco Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Re: Operations Scenerio #1

    Thanks for the heads up, Bob. I see they have a short reserve time limit. I went to ToyTrain Heaven and Wholesale Models and neither shows them available to reserve. I would like to get a couple if any seller makes them available at a discount. Thanks, again, Terry
     
  3. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    Re: Operations Scenerio #1

    Terry, email sales@hobbiesusa.com and they have them for I think 25% off.
     
  4. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Re: Operations Scenerio #1

    I think I'll order the Solvay chlorine car. Nice looking (silver & green), plus a neat car to have in a consist. There are many CL2 users - chemical companies, muni water companies, etc etc. Solvay was a major chlorine producer - also for caustic soda (sodium hydroxide) which comes off the process as a co-product.

    Solvay also is a major soda ash (sodium carbonate) producer in Wyoming, who ships "sody ash" in bulk hopper cars all over the US.

    I've been down in Solvay's soda ash mine - some 1500 feet under ground in Green River, Wy. Yikes!

    Back to chlorine cars - gotta be careful if you are pulling some CL2 behind you! Bad stuff if you mess with it in a wrong way.

    Ken
     
  5. WindsorSpring

    WindsorSpring Member

    Re: Operations Scenerio #1

    You would need a placard for that chlorine car. Does anyone make placards in HO scale for the various hazmats?
     
  6. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Re: Operations Scenerio #1

    George - Seems to me Microscale has such a sheet in HO - I know somebody does as I have seen them. Have to check to see if 1017 is one of the placards on the sheet for the chlorine car!

    Ken
     
  7. tmfrisco

    tmfrisco Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Re: Operations Scenerio #1

    It looks like Ethan's pusher is the only one so far that is taking preorders on these cars. I visited six of my regular suppliers and none is offering them. Strange:eek:! Thanks, Ethan. Terry
     
  8. tmfrisco

    tmfrisco Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Re: Operations Scenerio #1

    Ken, the Microscale sheets are 87-975 for freight cars (1945-1970) and 87-228 which includes placards (1970s+). The hazmat placards must have changed in 1970, and I am not familiar with the pre 1970 placards as to the specific warnings. There are two that could work for the 1960s placard: no. 1. white background with "dangerous" in red across the middle, and no. 45. white background with "compressed gas" in red. I should add that I am interested in the Anchor Gas cars. Were these cars high pressure cars? If not, I guess the "dangerous" placard would be more appropriate for this tank. Thanks, Terry
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 15, 2010
  9. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Re: Operations Scenerio #1

    Bob, I really like the idea of operating "scenarios." Good thinking!

    I'm hoping that others with more specific knowledge will chime in. All that I have to offer is conjecture. I know that Rick McClellan has a LPG dealer on his Northern Division layout; presumably some of these cars would have headed to Ft. Scott and points north to Kansas City. Maybe?

    Others?

    Best Regards,
     
  10. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Re: Operations Scenerio #1

    Yes, the Atlas 11,000 gal tank car is a pressure car. The natural gas and chlorine cars would be full of liquid under high pressure.

    I think the natural gas DOT code is 1971. Chlorine is 1071. We may not be able to get the specific placards needed, so "compressed gas" would be the one to use.

    Ken
     
  11. Rick McClellan

    Rick McClellan 2009 Engineer of the Year

    Re: Operations Scenerio #1

    For those interested, I have been creating a (real) shipper/shippee database (city, state, company, product in, product out, car type, railroad, date) in Excel for some time. I use it when completing my car cards unless I have a new type of car or a car with specific routing instructions printed on the car. With a new car or specific routing instructions, I conduct research until I know more about the product and where it was shipped from and to. I built it using SLSF|-| and other railroad clic charts from the period as well as All Aboard articles and the OpSig database of industries.

    I have been interested in knowing what is in the car, what it is used for, where it came from, who shipped it and who is receiving it. I'm no Einstein :confused:, but I am able to look at one of my road trains and tell you what terminal it came from usually from the car consist. For example a train containing one of those slick Genesis biege PCF insulated boxes tells me that some Schlitz beer is either coming from Memphis or an empty returning to Memphis. A train with company fuel tank cars tells me that the train is one of the KC-Tulsa trains as the Frisco bought its diesel from the Derby refinery located around Wichita.

    Maybe I am a little deranged but I think this is pretty interesting information and I am happy to share my Excel data base with anyone interested. As a double bonus I have a data base for the 1970s and one for the 1940s. No extra charge. :cool:
     
  12. FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018)

    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018) Passed Away April 12, 2018 Frisco.org Supporter

    Re: Operations Scenerio #1

    Rick and I have discussed this privately, but now that he brings the diesel fuel car scenerio up, I have oftened wondered how they were routed if they were bound for KC, Ft. Scott, or Tulsa. Were they taken all the way to Springfield or possibly set out at Columbus to be picked up there by an Afton Sub train? I know that there was a fairly substantial classification yard there north or town. Maybe John Chambers or one of the other SEK area guys can answer this.
     
  13. tmfrisco

    tmfrisco Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Re: Operations Scenerio #1

    Frisco also bought diesel from the refinery in Cyril, Ok. west of Oklahoma City and from the Mid-Continent/DX/Sun refinery:eek: in Tulsa. The cars would be spotted to the light oil racks by the midnight shift and pulled by the afternoon shift. We also spotted Katy:( cars for diesel loading at the same time. These would be delivered to the Katy uptown at the Tulsa Interlocker. The tank movements into and out of Cherokee Yard presents a tremendous amount of operating challenges for anyone modeling Tulsa outright or as a staging area. TTH has just announced the Atlas 11,000 gallons tanks for $21.67 for early reservation. Thanks, Terry
     
  14. WindsorSpring

    WindsorSpring Member

    Re: Operations Scenerio #1

    The UN number for "natural gas" is indeed 1971 for compressed gas. However, a more likely shipment would fall under 1972 "liquefied natural gas" or "methane, refrigerated liquid." However, most of the cars passing by on the Cuba Sub carry the 1075 placard for "Liquefied Petroleum Gas" or "LPG" (mostly propane). Curiously, 1071 is the UN number for "oil gas." I am sure 1017 was the one intended for Chlorine as mentioned lower in the thread.

    It is comforting to have a copy of the ERG by the door on the way to out to watch trains!
     
  15. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Re: Operations Scenerio #1

    Yeah, 1075 is probably a better DOT number for LPG.

    Ken
     
  16. Brad Slone

    Brad Slone Member Frisco.org Supporter

    In know that a number of small towns along the eastern division had LPG distributors that received shipments by rail. Although the siding track is long gone the stand and pipes for unloading cars still exists here in Dixon. Fort Wood also had several platforms to unload LPG tank cars, there is a photo on Condrens site of a GP-7 pulling a jumbo LPG tank car over the Piney. There is a nice article in RP CYC volume 7 regarding the 10,500 gal cars which where very similiar to the Atlas car's, only a foot shorter. I have taken a number of the Atlas cars and relettered them as 10,500 cars, I can live with 1' difference.

    Brad
     
  17. WindsorSpring

    WindsorSpring Member

    Brad Slone wrote "... a number of small towns along the eastern division had LPG distributors that received shipments by rail." There still are a few for the Cuba Sub local seems to always have a car or two for LPG in its consist.
     
  18. FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018)

    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018) Passed Away April 12, 2018 Frisco.org Supporter

    Guys, this is awesome stuff, especially the part about sidings in small towns. As the visitors who were here last weekend noticed, one should make a point as they travel through small towns (and large alike) to look at the buildings, etc. and compare them to offerings of manufacturers. I will post an example or two of what I mean in the next couple of days. Does anyone have an example of an LPG rack that we can use?
     
  19. nickmolo

    nickmolo Member

    Re: Operations Scenerio #1

    Rick,

    I wouldn't mind a copy of your database.

    Thanks Nick

     
  20. Brad Slone

    Brad Slone Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Attached are photo's of the LP gas racks located at Fort Leonard Wood. Although LP gas has been shipped by truck for years, at one time these racks saw alot of use. The racks are located on the tail of the wye, with spots for three cars, it was also equipped with a winch to help move cars around.

    Brad
     

    Attached Files:

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