New product. SD45

Discussion in 'Diesel Locomotives' started by Iantha_Branch, Sep 23, 2009.

  1. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    And let's not forgetthe roof beacon on #911. Hopefully this time they will wire them up for us.
     
  2. bob_wintle

    bob_wintle Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Ethan:
    They won't be wired up to work as a DCC function unless the locomotive has a Dcc decoder in the unit.
    Bob Wintle
     
  3. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    I am not certain that I agree Marre’s comments about the addition of a 4 motor unit (covered wagon) to a pair of SD-45’s to help maintain higher TE at the higher end of the speed curve. While the TE would be greater, it wouldn’t be much greater. This is especially true in the case where F-9B’s were spliced between a pair of SD-45’s. This was very typical consist, i.e., SD-45/F-9B/SD-45 when the 900's first arrived.

    I remember a discussion between Larry Buffington (son of Lee) and my father during which Larry stated that above 15 or 20 mph the covered wagon was just along for the ride. I have attached a chart with generic horsepower curves. Since the HP curve is asymptotic, the change in TE for a given change in speed is greatest at the low speed end of the curve. It takes a lot of extra HP at the upper of the speed axis to provide a significant increase in TE. If one looks at a TE vs Speed graph the addition of the extra unit provides more bang for the buck at the lower end of the speed axis. The addition of the covered wagon was to speed acceleration at the lower speeds.

    The earliest ETT that I have that includes the SD-45's is the May 28, 1967 Number 47. Per Section 14,
    900 Series may be combined with 700, 800 series units, and units 5005, 5007 and 5140-5152 only in the following combinations
    Number of 900 Series Units...........Combination of 700's, 800's, 5005, F-9's
    1.............................................. 3
    2..............................................2
    3..............................................None

    Not more than 3, 900 series may be used in in an engine consist


    From ETT 48, Feb 2, 1969
    Combination of units 75&77, 140-152, 700's, 800's, & 900's
    Four or more units work power on only three units next to cars except if consist includes more than 2, 900's then work power on only two units next to cars.

    The ETT's also restrict the territory where the 900 could operate
    StL-Floydada
    Tulsa-Enid
    Sapulpa-FTW/Dallas
    Lakeside- Hugo/Paris
    Monett- Ft Smith
    Monett - Wichita
    Oronogo - Baxter Springs
    Carl Jct-Joplin
    Edward - Afton
    KC - B'ham
    Amory - Pensacola
    Aliceville - Mobile

    While the Cooper's rating of the 900's was an issue SD-45=E-53.6 vs F-Unit=E38.3, it is important to take into consideration the buff and draft forces generated by the diesel locomotive consist. Remember, an electric motor can produce 100% of its torque at 0 RPM, and it is possible to rip the guts out of railroad car at even slow speeds. The same is true of the buff forces created when a locomotive is in dynamic brake mode. If care is not exercised is is possible derail the cars as the buff forces build and cause lateral buckling. If the track structure is weak (poor gauge, bad tie condition, etc.), the likely hood of this increases. The Frisco limited its consists to 6 units, and even then there were special instructions with regard to which units could be worked. This was especially true when shoving or taking slack


    When the 900's arrived, the Frisco experienced several derailments with the 900's in the consist. A common thread in the derailments was they all occurred in sharp curves, and the 900's turned the outside rail. The Frisco adapted a policy of rattle-spiking all curves over 2 deg-30 min. It solved the problem



     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 1, 2009
  4. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Frisco.org Supporter

    Do any of you HO second generation diesel guys ever run multi unit lash-ups? Like two (or three) SD-45's. Or mix and match the models like GE+EMD (And model brands like Atlas+Kato)? They always seemed to be in three and four unit consists.

    Tom
     
  5. Sirfoldalot

    Sirfoldalot Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    OK Karl ... you got me scratching my head again. :confused:
    What the heck is: rattle-spiking :confused::confused:
     
  6. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Karl - Good discussion! Thanks. Higher speeds really suck up the HP, no matter what you are trying to move - train, car, ship, airplane, cycle, etc.

    I think I remember seeing frequent SD45-GP35-GP35-SD45 consists in the late 1970's & very early 1980's here on the Eastern Division. Kurt and I chased an SD45-GP38-2(400's)-GP38-2(400's)-SD45 mix thru St James-Cuba-Bourbon-Sullivan, plus I recall seeing a B30-7-SD45-SD45 mix roar through Newburg, one fine Saturday afternoon. I have a pic of that one somewhere. Sure wish we could go see these big fellows again!

    Ken
     
  7. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    I do that all the time. I have a B30-7 and a GP38-2. Now I have a second that I haven't gotten to run much, problem is they're all atlas but they run a different speeds.
     
  8. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Frisco.org Supporter

    The main N scale brands (Atlas, Kato, Life-Like) all run at different speeds. Kinda irksome--Looks like ALL model manufacturers' engines would be more compatibile. Seem like that would be a plus, a "feature" to advertise!

    Tom
     
  9. Rick McClellan

    Rick McClellan 2009 Engineer of the Year

    Multi-unit lash ups are a necessity on the Frisco Northern Division due to the amount of tonnage that we move. Most consists were two units with a third being added to protect the QLA, FSE, NWF etc in the 1970s. In the 1950s we are running ABBA F3 sets and one FA1-FB1-FA1 set and one two unit set of GP7Ls. (Need to add more GP7Ls when they come available.) With the conversion to DCC and the lower decoder cost, a third unit will become common in the 1970s sessions (starting Jan 2010).

    On the Northern Division, I have noticed that units from the same manufacturer generally run together pretty good but not so when you mix manufacturers in a consist. My experience is they fight each other pulling and slamming at alternate times. They will get the job done but it isn't perfection by any measure.

    This reminds me of my ride along on the Arkansas Midland Railroad a few years ago. They used a variety of older EMD units and the units (from the same manufacturer) would pull and slam each other constantly. Maybe we are prototypical after all?

    So here is the question. Would the locomotive engineers on the website let us know their experience with units in the consists they ran? It would be great to hear from the guys who can tell us first hand how multi-unit consists handled on the road.

    Ship IT on the Frisco!

    Rick

    PS. My head hurts from reading Karl's response below. After I read it another 20 times I may need to ask some questions. I was a business major but I should have taken some engineering classes. I was able to figure out that ETT was Employe Time Table. I may be on my way . . . .
     
  10. Sirfoldalot

    Sirfoldalot Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    :eek: I think Karl does this to us on purpose. :p:D

    I am still searching for rattle-spiking.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2009
  11. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Heavier rail weights used ties plates punched with 8 holes per plate. A rattle-spiked plate used 4 spikes per plate instead of just two. The additional two spikes or as shown in the attached image, studs helped restrict lateral movement. The benefits are reduced tie abrasion, which extended tie life and improved line and gauge.

     

    Attached Files:

    modeltruckshop and Joe Lovett like this.
  12. Sirfoldalot

    Sirfoldalot Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    Thanks, Karl.
    I had seen that before, but did not know that it had a name.
    Did the Frisco use any of the (I call them "C" clamps) to hold the rail down?

    Who first started using tie plates, and when? (Inquiring minds want to know.)
     
  13. HWB

    HWB FRISCO.org Supporter

    Out here on the Avard Sub multi unit lash ups are the norm


    [​IMG]
     
  14. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    Wow HWB, how did you mange to get so many SD45's and F units?
     
  15. HWB

    HWB FRISCO.org Supporter

    the F units are Genesis F units I stripped and painted. The SD45's are Kato's

    I have three of the SD45's painted. I was not impressed with the way they ran straight out of the box. I put a decoder in one of them and it helped tremendously. The other two spent many hours running around the club layout and being tuned before I was satisfied with their performance.
    Of course this will not stop me from purchasing a Frisco SD45. My goal will now be to have all road numbers! I'm going for the second mortgage Monday!
     
  16. HWB

    HWB FRISCO.org Supporter

  17. friscobob

    friscobob Staff Member Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Lucky you.......my sole F9B is an Athearn "blue-box" F7B with a 48" fan added for the dynamic brakes. The SD45s I use are Athearn/Rail Power Products hybrids.

    I used to have three Athearn "wide-body" SD45s detailed and painted as per an old RMC article, but I sold those off years ago. Still have three P2K SD45s stripped and awaiting details and paint.

    BTW, that price of 69.99 sounds pretty good..... the wife is asking me what I want for Christmas, so.................
     
  18. HWB

    HWB FRISCO.org Supporter

    There was a day on ebay when you could get those Genesis models dirt cheap especially if you didn't care about road names. I only looked for specific details. Too bad those days are long gone. I'm looking forward to the day Intermountain comes out with their o/w F units.
     
  19. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    Wish I could do that. To bad My dad don't want me painting locos anymore.
     
  20. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I've lost track of the status of the Athearn HO SD45 in Frisco colors. Is it out yet, or when will it be out?

    Ken
     

Share This Page