Discussion in 'Cabooses' started by Rick McClellan, Nov 19, 2008.
John - See my edited post of a few minutes ago.
Thank you for the updated post.
Please note that the 1979 bay window cabooses were not built from PS1 boxcars. These cabooses were built new in the shops. No former boxcars were used in there construction.
Hope this helps.
Thanks, I wondered about that. I don't have diagrams, but the bay-window cabs do look to be shorter in length than the 1700's and 1400's, and the PS-1.
But, before I posted my comments about the CMS-built Frisco way cars, I checked everything vs. what I believe to be the "bible" on Frisco cabs - the Diesel Era two-part article on "Frisco Road Waycars", by Greg Sommers. It it, Greg notes that the bay-window cabs were indeed built from surplus PS-1 box cars. In fact, Greg gives the SLSF PS-1 car number sacrificed and its build date for each bay-window cab (as he does for the 1700's and 1400's as well). He does comment that the PS-1 car body had to have major surgery in this case, in particular it needed to be narrowed to allow the bay windows to meet the Frisco clearance diagram. He doesn't mention length, but the cab is obviously shorter than a PS-1 box car. He noted there was a lot of engineering required; the ten cabs took a long time to build, the cost for each was $40,000, and that there were very few, if any, identifying features from the PS-1 left to see when the cab was finished. They were built in November-December 1979, so their career on the Frisco was very short.
Thank you for your note.
I do not know the source of Greg's information. However, during college I worked in the shops during the construction of the cabooses. On the evening shift we brought parts in to resupply the lines for the various projects. The cabooses were constructed on track 3, in an assembly line process from new components.
As you have noted, the cars do not fit the PS-1 mold in size, shape, etc. The roofs are x-panel configuration from new components not found on the Pullman Standard box cars. The sides were fabricated on shop made jigs, also built by Frisco. Even the floors were brand new. I have a couple of pieces of the wood floor scrap that were cut from longer planks.
The shops fabricated most all of the components, including the under frame, body and associated components,, handrails, etc. Standard commercial components were used for the trucks, roof panels, windows, radios, light fixtures, toilet, etc.
Hope this helps clear up an unfortunate publication error concerning these cabooses.
Hope this helps.
OK. Hard to argue with an eye witness!
Perhaps it was something like the 4300's being built from old spot engines. Only a few parts from the spot were used, everything else was new. Or, perhaps the plan called for use of much of a PS-1, but it was such a hassle they just decided to build most of the cabs from scratch late in the game? Whatever!
Good information, thanks.
Not too much was planned, at that time decisions were kinda a one liner. When the upper guy's wanted it done, you just started doing it. They did order kits for some cars, and some were scratchbuilt. Most of the secondhand parts came from the scrap yard, right across from the car shop. I didn't pay too much attention, however I do remember the jigs laid out in the shop. We had a lot of guys on the Frisco softball team that was carmen, beings a machine operator, I was by the shop quite a lot. Brother in law worked their and lots of guys I knew. When they needed, I came by with a machine, I also worked the Cat Pack and panel track right by the shop. I do remember the upper car shop guys being hot all the time, sometimes priorities changed on a daily basis. The explaination is found in the chain of command, the car shop went under operating about that time. So did engineering. They use to fight all the time about who was in charge, surprising anyone would know what happened. Ha!
One thing to remember, that was the time of Roy Buchannan, Bill Thompson and Bob Akens. It really didn't matter what you was doing, if one of them said, to do something, you threw down your tools and just started what they said. Those kinda guy's would just fire you on the spot. Kinda funny now, they would fire you, then three months later promote you. That's real railroading
I bought this Frisco 1200 cupola from Shapeways. It is laser printed and designed to fit an Atlas caboose. The cupola looks very nice, but will require quite a bit of modification to fit an Atlas caboose. It is better than starting from scratch for sure. They cost $20
Hey Paul, thanks for buying that cupola! It's a work in progress, but I think it will work for modeling 1200-1284. I believe 1285-1292 have a lower mounted cupola that I have not modeled yet.
After you placed your order I posted a photo showing the modification required on the Atlas caboose to get the cupola to fit. I don't know if this will show up for you or not, but here's the image showing the area to be removed (the gray shaded area):
If that doesn't work, here's the product page:
I have just completed the CAD for several ends, sides and roofs for the various cabooses I want to model, but I haven't got all the descriptions and photos and product videos sorted out yet. It's a time consuming process to say the least.
3D printing is still rather expensive and the quality is getting better all the time, but it's a little ways away from competing with injection molded products. However, if the only option is out of production brass or scratchbuilding, it's not half bad.
There are many other caboose parts in my Shapeways store, including parts to modify the Atlas caboose into a pretty respectable model of either the 1200-1274 or the 1275-1284 series. And as soon as I get the 1285-1292 cupolas done, those will be available, too. Here's the link to the Caboose section of my store:
Good job on the product Ryan ! that's cool. The pic of the ho Atlas body is very helpful. I look forward to seeing more products you are developing ! Your work is much appreciated. As far as the cupola on 1285-92, I'm not sure if its actually any shorter than the earlier cabooses or if it
just sits lower on the body. I am going to measure the distance from the cupola roof to the cupola bottom edge on 1232 and 1291 tomorrow to find out for sure. The weather has been great here in Tulsa, we have worked steadily on 1291 since Oct 1 and will be staying steady on the project
for many months to come. I have a skilled welder and metal fabricator on the project and his abilities are much appreciated. We have steamed through the vast majority of the steel fabrication on 1291 and will likely be done by the end of this week. After this week I am going to put the
metal man to work on 1288 so myself and one more man can focus on finish work for 1291. Fun stuff for sure.
Thanks, Paul. This started out as me reverse-engineering parts for the Atlas caboose, since it's a great starting point to build any number of extended vision cabooses from Frisco or several other railroads. I started off drawing a flat kit of the Atlas carbody and worked up different versions of the cupolas, sides, ends and roofs to mix and match so that I can model all the variations I grew up with. The vast majority of what I've drawn is based on internet quality low resolution photos, so I'm quite sure there's a lot of error in there. Some of the drawings are based on my own photos, which are quite large and offer much detail. The photos you have shared of your caboose rebuilds have been very helpful.
I'm not sure how well Shapeways executed the part (since mine are delayed in the mail and won't be here until later today), but on the side wall extensions below the cupola I have reproduced the weld seams on the Atlas model, so be sure to line it up with the Atlas body. It's an easy detail to miss until after it's painted! Also, be sure to clean the part with a soak in isopropyl alcohol, acetone (keep that soak short) or Bestine. There are many different recommendations for cleaning the supporting wax off the 3D printed parts, so I'd recommend doing a little research and trying whichever method you feel comfortable with.
If it's not too much trouble, could you measure the distance from the tops of the side windows to the top of the roof (the top of the rain gutter just below the overhanging portion of the roof)? I'm not sure if this varies among the different Frisco cabooses from 1200-1274, 1275-1284 or 1285-1292. It is definitely not consistent from railroad to railroad, I'll tell you that! No matter what the results of your findings on the height of the cupolas or the position of the windows, this isn't like a traditional injection molded model with tooling that's difficult and expensive to modify. If you have better information, I can change the CAD file fairly easily and update the STL file on Shapeways so any future orders use the corrected file.
I actually made the 1285-1292 version of the cupola last night and uploaded it. I made a copy of the CAD file I used to make the cupola you have, then I removed the side wall extensions so the cupola will sit down on the body lower. Again, if that's not consistent with what you're seeing, let me know and I can correct the model.
Now that I have this experience modeling these parts for the Atlas caboose under my belt, I'd like to try my hand at the bay window caboose. Is the example you found from Picher still in northeastern Oklahoma? I'm going to the prototype modelers meet in Benton, Kansas in about a month, and though it's out of the way, I'm considering stopping by that caboose for some photos and measurements.
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