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ANOTHER GREAT FRISCO RAFFLE!

Modeling Signature Frisco Locations in 4'x8'

Discussion in 'Divisions' started by yardmaster, Feb 4, 2007.

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  1. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Good points on both, Bob.

    I've personally become a fan of an active, off-site fiddle yard for a 4x8 layout or larger.

    Model Railroad Planning 1995 had a great article on Jack Ozanich's Atlantic Great Eastern RR and the benefits of an active fiddle yard. That same issue also introduced the "Layout Design Element" (LDE) concept where Tony Koester included a 4x8 plan for representing Wingate, IN.

    As I envision it...the front 2/3 of the 4x8 section is modeled, representing a particular locale.

    The back 1/3 can include any number of staging options: a few through sidings for a smaller branch line, or a couple of extra tracks for staging trains, followed by fiddling the yard with an "0-5-0" switcher to ensure the trains keep moving. :)

    Frankly, the more I've thought about it, the more I'd favor this approach on a 4x8 section. Aside from a switching layout I'm not sure any other approach would be "scenically sincere."

    A hale and hearty second to N scale; if I only had a 4x8 space, I think I would have to make the jump! If we're lucky, maybe we will see an Afton Sub track plan for such a space and scale in the future!
     
    yardmaster, Sep 3, 2008
    #21
  2. friscobob

    friscobob Staff Member Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Funny you should mention that....lol......I've been kicking aroud the idea of modeling the Afton Sub in HO. Only four through freights daily, plus yard drags between KC and Tulsa and a coal train once in a while, but locals based out of Miami, Columbus, and Baxter Springs, plus action on the Miami Branch (ex-NEO). The Miami Branch itself is a great subject for a model railroad (I've done it myself). Also, I remember seeing grain extras on the Frisco in the mid-70s with UP units on the point. ALthough the sub officially ends at Edward, south of Ft. Scott, one could either model the Ft. Scott yard or have it as staging. Same for track west of Afton, once the sub meets the Cherokee Sub. This 88.5- mile long suubdivision would make a great line to model.
     
    friscobob, Sep 5, 2008
    #22
  3. MFreix

    MFreix Member

    I know this is an old thread, but I am considering a 4x8 layout design element style layout focusing on Buhler or Valley Center, KS to tide me over until I have the space and time to build my larger layout.

    As some said earlier I initially doubted the amount of action you could cram in, but after looking more closely with smart planning you could have more than enough to keep a single operator busy.
     
    MFreix, May 8, 2010
    #23
  4. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    I worked out the location details during testing a few weeks ago, and my 4x8 is modeling "Iantha" on the Iantha Branch. It's kind of like the Iantha area, but it has all the interchange railroads coming in at one spot. In the future when I build a bigger layout I will represent all of the Iantha Branch towns, and the only inter change in Iantha is between the Iantha Branch and the Frisco Ash Grove sub which really did come through Iantha.
     
    Iantha_Branch, May 8, 2010
    #24
  5. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Matt,
    Sounds like a good plan! I'll look forward to seeing some of your layout plan ideas.

    If you're not to that point yet: do you have any town schematics for the trackage in either of these locales? Some of the folks here could do some doodling on how to fit the prototype track plan into your available space.

    The idea of prototype modeling in a 4x8 space came from the 1995 "Model Railroad Planning" that featured Wingate, IN. Two track plans inluded used both the "standard" 4x8 table with oval (obscured staging on one side) OR ripping the 4x8 sheet so that there was a 2x8 "stage" section of the town, with two 1x8 "staging wings" on each end.

    I personally think it's a great way for the first time or space-crunched layout builder to still get the benefit of modeling the prototype.

    Best Regards,
     
    yardmaster, May 10, 2010
    #25
  6. MFreix

    MFreix Member

    The Wingate article is what inspired me initially.

    I don't have a firm track plan yet, but I'm thinking Buhler is the way to go for me. I kind of have an idea of what the track looked like there, but if anyone here has a firm idea of what the layout was I would LOVE to see it.

     
    MFreix, May 10, 2010
    #26
  7. MFreix

    MFreix Member

    After my trip out to the Burton Sub today I am torn between Buhler and Valley Center for my LDE 4x8. I am leaning towards Buhler because I feel it would be the easiest to translate to a 4x8 plan and it's tall mill and elevator buildings will give some power to the scene.

    Here's the pics from today: http://www.frisco.org/vb/album.php?albumid=109
     
    MFreix, May 11, 2010
    #27
  8. Boomer John

    Boomer John Member

    I once had a passing interest in the NKP and limited space available thus kept the Wingate article for many years. I finally nixed the idea looking at the limited operational potential. There were something like eight trains a day through Wingate. You are going to be more limited in Buhler given, I think, it was a one train a day out a back operation. But maybe operation is not that important to you.

    The other thing I did not like about Wingate on the 8X4 was the size of the fiddle tracks on the reverse side, especially since this was a NKP main line. With Buhler this could work in your favor given I doubt the trains were very long.

    John
     
    Boomer John, May 11, 2010
    #28
  9. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Howdy, John...good to hear from you. We're still waiting for layout pics! :)

    You make an excellent point. I personally think a smaller branch line will end itself much better to a 4x8 space, vis-a-vis staging. Less traffic density and shorter trains can fit okay.

    Even if using the "back side" staging as an active fiddle yard (see Jack Ozanich's Atlantic Great Eastern in that same magazine), track length is prohibitive for modeling even a compressed, steam-era mainline train.

    Even on our garage-sized Northern Division/KC Terminal, we should be running a LOT more trains but I have neither staging space nor rolling stock/motive power. I'm hoping to amp up the future op sessions through "conceptual traffic:" that is, even if I can't actually run the KC-Florida Special through Olathe, the road crew for an Olathe Turn or local freight can keep an eye on the timetable, knowing that they'd better keep the appropriate mainline open!

    A 4x8 space does have the potential to become blasé very quickly. At the same time, it becomes all the easier to model a locale, enjoy, and move onto the next one.

    In short: I think a main line could be doable for this space if you're willing to live with "conceptual traffic," or short trains with a fiddle-yardmaster. Otherwise, I think the small branch is much better suited.
     
    yardmaster, May 13, 2010
    #29
  10. MFreix

    MFreix Member

    This was my thought...it would be something I could complete in a fairly short period of time and prepare me for my larger endeavors.

     
    MFreix, May 13, 2010
    #30
  11. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    A thought just crossed my mind; you might consider an overall big picture view. Design your 4x8 in such a way that you might be able to slice it into a pair of 2x4 chunks that could be reused in a "grand overall plan" for a more linear layout design. In that way, your modeling efforts will further a larger goal.
     
    klrwhizkid, May 13, 2010
    #31
  12. MFreix

    MFreix Member

    An image of the Carthage track layout and industry popped up and that looks like it could be a great LDE.
     
    MFreix, May 16, 2010
    #32
  13. Wes S.

    Wes S. Member

    Were I to build a "Wingate"-style 4X8 vigenette with a Frisco theme, I'd pick one of the smaller towns along the old KC-Clinton-Springfield High Line. Weaubleau would be an ideal choice, with a house track, bulk oil plant, depot and a very photogenic feed mill. The modeler could include a bit of the business district along US 54 after it crossed the Frisco as well, extending from the front edge of the layout to the backdrop screening a hidden fiddle yard as on the "Wingate" plan.

    The model Weaubleau wouldn't need a lot of selective compression to fit on a 4X8; also, the smaller locos and freight cars that work best on a HO 4X8 would probably be prototypical for the line.

    Alas, I don't even have room for a 4X8 in my apartment. I'm actually doing a bookshelf layout based on the old former KCC&S mainline in Harrisonville (along Commercial Street/Old US 71) that the Frisco used as an industrial spur in later years...and it strikes me that you could do a pretty good job of modeling Harrinsonville on a Wingate-style 4X8, including the Frisco depot and the MoPac crossing/interchange, if you modeled it in N scale and added a shelf extending off one side at a 90-degree angle to include that industrial spur along Commercial...
     
    Wes S., May 16, 2010
    #33
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