Modeling Signature Frisco Locations in 4'x8'

Discussion in 'Divisions' started by yardmaster, Feb 4, 2007.

  1. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Folks -
    Reading back into the inaugural edition of "Model Railroad Planning," I read of "layout design elements" for the first time and reviewed Tony Koester's recreation of Wingate, IN on a 4'x8' table in the traditional "loop." At the time, I recall not being terribly impressed.

    Some 8 years after purchasing our house and remaining sans layout, my son occasionally asks about building a loop on a "train table." How to appease him and remain true to prototypical modeling?

    A photo in "Frisco Power" got my attention: a 4000-class 2-8-2 and a 700-series 4-6-0 picking up orders at the old Southeastern Jct. tower and then backing into their train. So many of these photos capture the feeling of a railfan watching the action come to and fro at a single spot.

    I perceive it to be impossible to build a significant amount of operational excitement into a 4'x8' oval, but what about selectively compressing a signature Frisco locale into such a space? For those operating 4-8-2 or larger steam power and 70' coaches, maybe the dimensions can be stretched a wee bit to allow for reasonable radii, but the concept remains the same.

    Some possible location considerations:

    Southeastern Junction
    Sapulpa, OK
    SL-SF / M & I Junction (near MS River Ferry at Thomure, MO)
    Any depot setting with a passing siding (maybe a coal tower and cattle pen)

    I'd be curious to see both other locale suggestions and possible track plans.

    Thinking bigger picture, this might be a good way to get novice model railroaders involved in modeling a fallen flag (namely the Saint Louis-San Francisco).

    Just some thoughts as I sit through the singular sporting event that's designed to keep us occupied between the end of the World Series and the beginning of spring training. 8^)

    Best Regards,
     
  2. adams

    adams QLA-QSF

    Along the same line, among other projects, I've constructed a small, 4x6 layout. It's sort of an inverted figure 8, based on an Atlas plan, that has a passing track at each end of the table (on the curves). The crossing represents that of the QA&P and FW&D at Acme, Texas. Trains basically are 'staged' on the sidings, and travel through the interlocking. The 'town' of Acme is basically all that's modeled, yet 3 trains can be used (one or two at a time) on this small layout. I also built a 'dispatcher's' panel that has a schematic with pushbutton turnout control (for the 2 sidings) and SPDT switches to allow 2 cab control. I may run a shelf off the back side along the wall for yard space or to represent the plaster plant at Acme. Two of the layout curves are 22" radius, but the others are 18.
     
  3. w3hodoug (Doug Hughes RIP 03/24/2021)

    w3hodoug (Doug Hughes RIP 03/24/2021) 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Chris, if you could forgo the oval and concentrate on strickly switching, Blakey Island in Mobile, AL can't be beat. There was a feature on it in one of Alan's ALL ABOARD issues from the Frisco Museum (I can copy it for you if you don't have it). The USGS map shows all the trackage. There's probably a Sanborne map too. Cars got to & from the island from Mobile by a ferry operation, they were switched to ship piers by a small switcher, I think there was one or two run around tracks, a small engine house, etc.

    The operation was dieselized early with GE 45 tonner (side rods) number 11. Pre merger, No. 11 was replaced by a SW-1 bought from the BN and numbered 10. We saw it at Springfield after being painted at one of the late-1970's FMIG Springfield meets. You model the steam era, but I don't know what steam engine was assigned there before No. 11 arrived. My guess would be one of the older 0-6-0's. The Roundhouse model is cheap, looks great, is close to several of Frisco's even-spaced-driver 0-6-0 series engines, and runs nice.

    Put a scenic divider down the long dimension (or corner to corner) of the 4X8, have the ferry operation & engine house on one side, a tight circle of track to get to the other, and the docks and ships on the other side.

    It would be an enjoyable year (full time) building the layout and models, and a lifetime of operation - all in 4X8. You'd need a car ferry to get cars from/to staging.

    The ALL ABOARD article mentioned that the switching operation was a highly-sought-after assignment by Frisco's engineers.

    Just my humble opinion , Doug
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 10, 2007
  4. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I think Doug has it right... unless you have a thing for watching trains go in circles... model a switching area.

    Blakely Island is a good candidate, due to the isolated nature of the line, and the car ferrys for an easy connection to the outside world.

    I was doing some research to help a friend recently, and discovered you follow the line on Blakely island using google maps. Here's a link to the google maps page showing the ferry slip: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=...9685,-88.035969&spn=0.004299,0.00957&t=h&om=1

    My own choice for a similar line is to model the Ozark branch. In N-scale anyway, you can build the key areas of the Ozark branch in 32square feet, but it has to be in an arround the walls configuration, not a 4x8 solid mass of plywood.

    Paul
     
  5. friscobob

    friscobob Staff Member Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    For that matter, a switching layout based on the Miami Branch (former NEO) would work as well, esp. if you feature the B.F. Goodrich tire plant in Miami.

    Also, the Paris area would work as well, and could even feature SP, ATSF and MP interchanges (modeled early enough, you also have SP and Paris & Mt. Pleasant).
     
  6. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Another suggestion - how about Newburg to Bundy Junction? ... include the Newburg Yard, the CTC building, the bar over the creek, the Houston House (full of hungry MSM Miners on a Sunday night), the Ft Wood branch, the Alhambra Grotto resort and station, the old iron furnaces, the Little Piney River, etc. You could start and end the loop with the start of Dixon Hill and the bottom of Rolla Hill without moving too far from reality.

    For those wanting a fairly recent reference to the Blakely Island operation at Mobile - see Railfan/Railroad, Feb 1994.

    Ken
     
  7. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Great ideas. One could extend the concept a bit further and allocate 32 s.f. total (shelf layout or L/U shpae), or add a bit of staging off the main 4x8.

    Maybe we'll see some track plan ideas? With apologies to Kalmbach, maybe I smell a book called "Realistic Frisco Track Plans for Beginning Modelers." Hmmm. 8^)
     
  8. jbloch

    jbloch Member

    All good ideas above. I plan on both point to point and switching, so seeing trains go "round and round" is something I want to accomplish--in a 4 X 8 this would limit your curve radii as discussed above to about 22 inches, what Linn Wescott referred to as "standard" curves--this is one of the reasons I plan on an O or around the walls layout to accomidate broad curves.

    As for as your specific issue, I grew up in Rolla--would be pretty simple to model it, as I recall the 2 mains ran through the middle of town with just a few industrial sidings(Purina one that I remember, others ?) but also would be a little boring. Newburg would be a great idea--large yard and remember they had a turntable there(at least when I was there in the mid-60's--though don't think they were using it by that time)--though would take a lot of space if you really wanted to reproduce the yard as of that era. Ken's bringing up the Houston House certainly brings back memories!

    Jim
     
  9. w3hodoug (Doug Hughes RIP 03/24/2021)

    w3hodoug (Doug Hughes RIP 03/24/2021) 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Ken, The Newburg yard was almost a mile long. It was also fairly wide.

    Doing it in 4 x 8 would require Z scale.
     
  10. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    OK, Z-scaler Frisco Folk. I'll eagerly await track plans and details! :)

    This is precisely the conundrum I've run across in my own garage. The maxim "Model what you know" would force me to model the Chaffee Yard as I would love to do. No matter how much I selectively compress, however, it's not going to happen.

    The recent Current River Branch posting seems to scream 4 x 8 modeling. Add a wye for Willow Springs leading to a small shelf for a couple of staging tracks (I'm thinking MR's Carolina Central with staging and wye as added in MRP magazine) and I see fun for the novice modeler with a prototypical basis.

    Best Regards,
     
  11. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Doug - One would not need to model the whole place to use it for a theme for a model RR. As you know, the Newburg location is chock full of neat areas and things to include in a layout. That's why I suggested it.

    Ken
     
  12. w3hodoug (Doug Hughes RIP 03/24/2021)

    w3hodoug (Doug Hughes RIP 03/24/2021) 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Ken, I'm still struggling with a new design - how to get the wye at Bundy to go toward the aisle and a branch line and still have the switches at Bundy accessible? I'll be in that area this coming weekend, but will have not time to photo the present-day Dixon Hill-Newburg area. Not only is it UMR's homecoming, but there's a joint 10-year Dixon High School reunion to attend on the 20th. I have a decent area for Newburg about 18 feet long to work with - Bundy will be on the other side of the peninsula that will have a turn-back loop. Doug
     
  13. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    I'm having a severe designer's block also. I can dedicate 20+' to Newburg, but beyond that, I'm in a fog. I want to loop from the layout area over into the workshop area and run the length of the front wall where I will do a 4-5 track double ended staging/storage track yard and a six stall roundhouse/turntable. I can take off at one end of the basement with the Bundy wye to get there from that end, but will have to sneak back in the other end somehow. Can't really call it the Salem branch with 4500s coming over it. I want to have a nice interlocking tower and junction somewhere on the layout, even though the closest one is SE Jct. I guess I'll just have to use modeler's license, if mine hasn't expired yet.
    Main layout area is 12'9" x 49'6", which is the length of the basement.
     
  14. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Don, I'd always thought modeler's licenses were irrevocable over the lifetime of the holder. :)

    I personally think SE Jct. screams to be modeled as a "Layout Design Element." If one had enough staging (read traverser yards or fiddle yards) on each end to support 1940s train movements, I think of it as a fine modeling topic:
    • The Junction would fit in a rather narrow-width area,
    • Given enough length, most of the trackage could be included without undue selective compression,
    • One could just about include all types of motive power moving through the interlocking (including TRRA power).

    Taking a page out of the UK Modeler's Playbook, it could even be made portable, too.

    Doug - hope the trip back to school was a good one. Isn't MSM/UMR going through another name change? I can't seem to keep track of which university is which anymore!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2007
  15. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Per my posting of a few weeks ago in this thread - the Newburg, MO area on the Frisco Eastern Division is "chock full" of interesting features, both today and in days past - and the countryside is saturated in "Ozark Mountain rustic" as well. It's also full of chiggers until the first frost. Beware!

    Newburg has always been my favorite area of the Frisco since I first visited there (as a hungry MSM Miner) on a Sunday night in September, 1960. When I first saw it then - even though its past glories were well faded by then, my reaction was "Wow"!

    But, I readily admit to being an Eastern Division "geek", with some River Division thrown in. I'm not all that familiar with other areas of the SLSF.

    I'd be interested in other opinions ..... as an expansion to this thread ..... What other compact areas of the Frisco were/are chock full of interesting goodies as is Newburg? I'm sure there are several. After all, it was the Frisco!

    Ken |-|
    Meteor910
     
  16. w3hodoug (Doug Hughes RIP 03/24/2021)

    w3hodoug (Doug Hughes RIP 03/24/2021) 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    This deserves it's own thread, which I think I'll start. We Newburg modelers need to help each other - especially on how to do Bundy Jct. Doug
     
  17. tim gungoll

    tim gungoll Member

    Ken:

    I am a UMR/MSM graduate as well. I bet you never participated in St.Patrick's day celebrations.
     
  18. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Tim -

    Sure I did! I remember coming home over St Pats my freshman year, and catching some flak for it. I celebrated a bit too much (rum and coke - ugh!) my sophomore year and played it a bit smarted the next year. I think I did miss my senior year St Pats due to an interview trip. Chemical engineers were a hot item back in 1964 (still are!), and I was flying all over the country.

    Ken
     
  19. w3hodoug (Doug Hughes RIP 03/24/2021)

    w3hodoug (Doug Hughes RIP 03/24/2021) 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Lebanon - see http://www.frisco.org/vb/showthread.php?t=896

    It has many prairie skyscrapers.

    And a wye.

    Doug
     
  20. friscobob

    friscobob Staff Member Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Lessee..........the Afton Sub junction east of Afton, OK would work.

    To the east, a bridge over Horse Creek. A small yard, a grain elevator complex, a brick depot, a coaling tower (up until 1974 or so, when it was taken down). Two through freights daily up & down the Afton Sub, ten or so daily on the Cherokee (which Afton is located on, station G348), two locals and occasional extras (including a coal train between Catale and Kansas City), and a local out of Baxter Springs on the Afton Sub. Until July 1976, trains on & off the Afton Sub swapped crews at Afton with crews based in Tulsa and Ft. Scott.

    Of course, to have enough trains to represent 14 thru freights daily would require a lot of storage, not to mention something repressenting train QLA and 33 westbound, and CTB and 32 east (the hot freights, esp. the QLA).

    An N scale layout in this size would work better to represent this area.
     

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