Clinton Subdivision Locomotive Motive Power

I thought it might be fun and interesting to start a thread about power on the Clinton Sub.

I've read several scattered posts about a certain locomotive model on the sub here and there but let's start one post here. Feel free to list any locos that can be verified or simply rumored to have been seen on the Clinton sub at one time. We can also mention any information about their duties or consist. Let the discussions begin.


I'll start with the E8A. This can be verified by photos on this forum. It can be seen with 2 car passenger consist. Seems like a lot of power for such a short consist.

 

An E-8 finding its way on the Clinton sub was due to a very complicated diesel pooling system with twelve units starting on train No 112 from Tulsa to Kansas City. Then down to Springfield on Train No 21, to Fort Scott on Train No 104, back to Springfield then back to Kansas City and so on taking thirteen days and over 6000 miles and going as far as Birmingham and back on Train No 105-106 before starting all over again.

There is also photo evidence of GP-7's handling trains Nos 20 and 21 (later renumbered to 21 and 22). Earlier photos of the Highline trains show various small steam engines handling the Highline passenger trains.

Tom G.

 

When the E's first arrived, there was a pool arrangement that Tom describes.

Just a quick list:
Bull Mooses, passenger
182 Class 4-4-0's, passenger
Little Ten Hundreds 4-6-2's, passenger, see http://www.frisco.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=9126&d=12556451711100's 4-6-0's, passenger
Bolsheviks 2-10-0's freight and passenger
I have one picture of a 4000 class 2-8-2 at Clinton, there isn't enough background to place it, so it's questionable. However, the ETT's allowed for the 4000's as far south as Clinton.

FP-7's, passenger
F-7, freight , only saw it once, it was not a good locomotive to use for switching
GP-7's freight and passenger
RS-1's, multi-unit on occasion
VO-1000's

Latter years SW-1500's and GP-38's

 

It is interesting to see that the Clinton Sub lasted into the era of the SW-1500 and even the GP-38.
This display of my ignorance is my Christmas gift to the rest of you!

George "who wonders if he gets points for knowing neither the E-8As nor the F-7's had dynamic brakes" Nelson

 

Also Manchester class of 1882, 4-4-0, number 79.

http://www.frisco.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=628&d=1129048608

 

Really great responses!

After researching some photo evidence of the FP7 & F7's I see the same loco #'s listed as both type of units. Was this just a mechanical modification made to the F7's?

 

The FP-7 was a factory designed dual purpose engine about four feet longer than an F-7 to allow room for a passenger train service steam generator.

F-7's were numbered 5018-5039. FP-7's on the Frisco were numbered 5040-5051.

Tom G.

 

The ICC historical records also show that Ten Wheeler 593 was involved in a side-swipe with the Haywire at Grandview on Jan 23, 1923. The accident killed one of the Frisco enginemen.

 

I'm curious if there were ever any stories or records of a GP15-1 or a SW 1200 on the Clinton sub.

 

I've recently completed a reskin v-scale model of a SLSF GP35 in the mandarin orange and white scheme hoping to use it on my High Line route. Looks like EMD started building them in 1963. Does this make sense that they could have been used on the High Line before the GP38's?

Thanks.

 

The odds of a GP-35 appearing on the Clinton Sub are slim to none. For diesel era freight power, I'd focus on GP-7's, RS-1's, and the Baldwin switch engines. GP-38's and SW-1500's appeared later. E-units and FP-7's, and steam-generator equipped GP-7's handled train Nos 20 and 21.

 

I'm curious as to why not since they started manufacturing them in 1963 before the GP-38's.

 

Weren't the GP35's heavier than the GP38's?

Tom

 

Good question. I did a little bit of research and from what I found the GP35 came in at 260,000 lbs. and the GP38 at 250,000 lbs. Was 10,000 lbs. enough to keep it off the Highline?

 

It's not about the date or the weight per se. The Highline had a Cooper's bridge rating of E-43.7 between Springfield and Clinton, and a rating E-53.8 between Clinton and Leeds Jct. A GP-7's bridge class was E-39.5, a RS-1 was E-39.5, and a GP-35 was E-41.1.

During 1964 the Clinton Sub was a branch line that handled only local traffic. Operation was all about setting out cars at the local "industries" or picking them up. It had a maximum speed of 40 mph between Springfield and Bolivar (thanks to Truman's visit), 30 mph between Bolivar and Clinton, and 35 mph between Clinton and Leeds Jct. There were numerous speed restrictions for curves in the 15-25 mph range. The line had two restricted bridges for cars over 177,000 lbs. Trains were short and seldom required more than two units. GP-7's, RS-1's, and the Baldwin switchers were perfect for such an operation. F-units were difficult to use for switching.

During the early sixties, the Frisco was replacing it aging F-unit fleet with high horsepower B-B's, the GP-35's and the U-25's, which were placed in operation on the Frisco's run-through freights and on it's high priority trains. There were still plenty of GP-7's on the roster to cover the branch line and local operations, and taking a brand new GP-35 off one of the mainline trains and putting one a local freight would be a waste of capital. It wasn't until after the GP-7 roster had diminished sufficiently that the GP-38's finally appeared on the Clinton Sub.

 

Great information Karl! That makes perfect sense and really paints a great picture about locomotive operations on the Highline during the 60's.

 

Tom G.

If you'll excuse my ignorance but would you clarify that pooling arrangement for me? Was the solo E8 pulling the same number of cars through this whole journey or did it start with another E8 (say from Tulsa to KC) and then were they broken apart for the trip to Clinton?

I have to agree with your statement that it was a complicated pooling arrangement. It sounds far simpler to just assign an available unit than having a unit on a dedicated run like you described.

Thank you.

Larry

 

I've seen a copy of the pool sheet someplace, but I can't recall all the details. Roughly, each day a single unit started from Tulsa on train No 112, went to KC, then to Springfield on train No 21 via Clinton, then to KC again via Ft. Scott on train No 104), then out on train No 105, etc., etc.

I forget the next step but when ever there was an extra unit needed, lead or trail like to pull train No 105, it was already waiting and added for the next leg. As I remember, it took twelve days to make the whole circuit. Then a second unit started from Tulsa the next day and repeated every day, over and over.

It was like singing "Row, row, row your boat". Then, there was another pool out of St. Louis with, I think eight engines for the trains to Newburg, Oklahoma City and Texas (Texas Special).
Later, when there were fewer trains they did just add and subtract units, usually at at Springfield, to trains.

TG

 

Tom,

After we "talked" I was on Mike Condren's web site and he mentioned a similar ping-ponging of the two E7/E8s assigned to Ft. Smith involving the unit(s) and the trains to Monett and Wichita.

I'm sorry to digress from the original thread but you know how inquiring minds are.

Thanks for the information.

Larry

 

Was there a chance one might have seen a Fairbanks Morse H12-44 on the Highline or maybe in the North Clinton yard?

Thank you,