Looks like I need to get out the meter, this thread gives me a good starting place. My switch is not like the photo. I see the issue, the throat of the frog is narrow. My frog is not powered yet, and it has insulated joints, a good bit away from the point. Let me check, with the new information, could be bleed through. May be speed matching, it is a curved turnout. Funny though, they don't do that, when run alone. I will get back, after some checking. Bill Jackson
If the rear unit is faster and thus pushing, it would be interesting to see if the problem goes away under load. That should slow it down and let the front unit start pulling. You didn't say whether you had turned the engines and tried them that way.
Steve, I had almost the same thought, just a while ago. The rear locomotive may be pushing the front one off. Right now, with my frogs being dead, the front one loses power and is temporarily shoved over or off on the curved turnout. I will try to turn it around. Speed matching may be part of the answer. They work ok on every thing, except the curved turnout. I began to think, when I was a Trainmaster in Gillete, Wy for BNSF the Belair helpers, would sometimes shove off the caboose behind a coal train, when going through the crossovers. It was somewhat solved with a wooden block between the coupler and the housing. The engineer had to watch his throttle positions. I want to say they had to stay below run six. Any way I will see how this works. Bill Jackson
Terry, after reading your comment, I measured two inches of dead space on the DCC friendly No. 8 switch. That is about the same as the E-8 trucks. With the double pickup it would take more than just the frog dead space to lose power. If the engine has enough power to shove off the trucks, at one point you must have wheel lift. Losing contact the wheels then slew and short. That happens real fast. In any event some where in there the lead loses power. I am new to DCC, but the consist runs ok in reverse, so the rear engine running faster was pushing the lead engine off on the rear trucks. Now I need to match the speeds on the engines. If anyone has tips on matching speeds, I can use the help.
Bill, yes things tend to work better when they're matched up right. It may be different with the soundtraxx decoders, but with the silent decoders you need 3 settings: CV2 is V(oltage) start, the number of volts that are applied to the motor at speed step 1. CV5 is Vmax, the number of volts at top speed step (14,28 or 128 depending on your setting) CV6 is Vmid, the number of volts at the middle of the speed steps. Tips for speed matching: look at what points the second locomotive is running faster. If it's about the same at the beginning, but starts running away as you increase steps leave start volts, but bump mid down a little and max down a little. There are several more sinerios that can happen, that one was just an example. If your having a hard time with this tell us at what points it faster, or same or slower. If its faster at all times bump all 3 down a little bit. Ethan EDIT Just checked the online manual. It lists CV2 as Vstart. But no were in there did it mention Vmid and max. Keith what do you do on these decoders?
I really did not check the opposite direction until Steve mentioned the possibility. I didn't wire a mar's light on the second unit. That will teach me. No matter, they are a bit apart. Good pun, right! They uncouple on the curves and the lead moves right on out. I didn't notice it the other way, course they are jammed up tight. Dumb me! Oh well, thanks Ethan. We'll see what Keith has to say. Bill Jackson
Bill, one other fix that we have for the turnouts you have is to place a little bond wire between the frog leads and the points. The connections that are provided are not tight enough to reliably supply power from the frog to the points. Additionally, it seems that the curve through points is a place where the only truck receiving power will lose it just because of the physics of the situation; trucks turning, frame tilting, wheel treads lifting on the outside of the curve, etc, so we can't rely on only one truck to supply power. Additionally, the method for power pickup from the axles is different from manufacturer to manufacturer and I have noticed that at least two manufacturers use sideframe plates for pickup from the axle ends. One works very well and the other is spotty. The diameter of the axle hole in the plate appears to be the major factor; the closer the clearance, the more reliable the pickup.
No one has said it yet, so I will. In DC operation, you simply place the locomotive(s) on the track you wanted them to run on, and turn a knob, or mash the "go" button. I thought at one time that a micro slide switch in the cab, or a Reed switch, to turn the headlights off and on, was actually pretty cool. As a dear friend of mine and I have discussed, we are in hopes that Frisco.org does not become, electronics/techno.org That would be a shame. Ship it on the Frisco, via QA&P Tom Holley
Yeah, if DCC is so great why are there so many problems with it? It has to be made more SIMPLE not more complicated! Even if I had imagined I might like to try DCC (Which I hadn't), all these posts would have thouroughly scared me away... Tom G.
Tom, don't let this discourage you. At first it is a little confusing, but it is actually surprisingly easy. When there is problems it just takes a couple extra steps to fix them compared to DC. Bill, I (sadly) don't have one of those so I don't know how heavy they are, but adding some weight to it might help keep it down. Ethan
Man, that's shocking. No we don't want eletro.org, but for me the sound, throttle response and light effects really enhance the fun of it. My layout, is only 9 by 9 so a big operating session is not a option. Signals, lights, backdrop, and sound are really great on my size layout. I think when it's done, I'm going to smear a little cresote underneath. Bill Jackson
I'm here to answer questions and provide assistance. That's why this sub-forum was created. I doubt that it will take over the site as a whole. In response to reliability, the main issue is reliably powered trackwork. It will equally affect DC or DCC. I have seen the spectrum of operating issues and invariably, it almost always comes down to power distribution but in few exceptions, the locomotives themselves are contributing factors.
Keith, keep up the good work and thanks for your help. DCC is a real plus for the hobby. Bill Jackson
The MRR club here has been thru 2 DCC systems at least so far, and nothing but problems. It is either no trains running at all or trains running into one another. One of my best friends still living here in GJ has a Brass Steam Engine that went to the floor, because it was hit from behind and shoved off the track. Now that's not DCC's fault, I would propose. But in DC operation if that operator had exceeded his limits, his Loco would have either run out of electrons, or been in a situation where his, and another's electrons, would have been at odds, or his train would have just stopped in DC operation. I think DCC as well as any other electronic gizmo will re-invent or transform itself every 4-5 years, and speaking for myself, by the time I could actually learn the system it is outdated, but that is probably just me. Not to mention, it would necessitate the modification of 100+ Shinohara switches and 130+ locomotives, I am not "gut hook" on DCC to that point, well yet. Like has been said earlier in this thread, and I would agree, that it needs to become more simple, as opposed to more complicated. Technology is not always the answer. I will say that if I were just starting out, and planning an operation, DCC would be something to be considered, but the point I am at now. Brother it is just not in the cards. I mean I am still trying to get some Chatt, the main lines. Tom Holley
If I already had a big layout, it would be a difficult decision financially. When I moved from KC, I sold most of my stuff, that was difficult. Starting again, for me DCC is a really good choice, but there is room for every one. We can still be buddy's, right. N gagers are the real problem. Just a joke. Our club, in Titusville, has both DC and DCC with the flip of a switch. It's broke down, into three parts, so we can run both, on different tracks. I helped with some of the track work and wiring. Agreed the wiring, not for the faint at heart, but it is getting easier. I really like it now. It's a rough start, but well worth every penny. Kind of like, putting together a high detail kit, I would not say DCC is RTR. Now for the real stuff, Keith, I set both my E-8 Frisco to the same address. I looked at the CV's and the normal settings are on both. I guess, I need to set them to different speeds on the speed table. Do you or anyone else have any tips? Bill Jackson
