Last Frisco Passenger Train Consists

Discussion in 'Passenger Operations' started by pbender, Sep 9, 2020.

  1. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Does anyone happen to have consist lists for the last Oklahomans and Southlands in 1967?

    I am trying to figure out the passenger carrying cars photographed by John Beirne as it left Springfield ( as seen on Mike Condren’s website here: https://condrenrails.com/MRP/MemphisCentralStation/Frisco-Last-Pass-Train.htm ( at the bottom ).

    the three passenger carrying cars appear to be coaches, and I would like to determine the numbers.

    in previous discussions of Pullman green painted lightweight cars ( see, for example:

    http://www.frisco.org/shipit/index....ed-on-streamlined-lightweight-equipment.6097/ )

    we have not identified any straight coaches as having received the Pullman green treatment while retaining the fluting.

    The center car appears to have 8 windows in the seating section. If that is actually a coach, that could only be 1259 “Picardy Lane”, which was the only car Frisco purchased in the 1955 equipment reorder.

    The other two cars could be the coach-buffet-lounge cars ( 1650 and 1652 ) we have previously identified as being painted in green.

    The Memphis photos by Terry Foshee bring some more clarity to the situation. The first car is definitely either 1650 or 1652, and the second Definitely has 8 windows, so it must be 1259.

    But what about that last car?

    Paul
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2020
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  2. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    So it looks like my research wasn’t complete enough.

    Tony Marchiando posted some info to TrainOrders on the last Frisco passenger train that includes photographs

    https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,4433720

    the three cars were
    1650 ( Sterling Price )
    1095 ( Manchester )
    1258 ( Webster Groves )

    I hadn’t considered that the two coach-dorm cars built for the meteor were rebuilt as straight coaches... and had 8 windows in the coach section.

    Paul
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
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  3. gstout

    gstout Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Kinda sad, really, that these last two trains on the system were allowed to operate with the ratty appearance they projected. Frisco had not only given up on these trains financially, but emotionally as well. This was kind of a shameful farewell.

    GS
     
  4. RogerRT

    RogerRT Staff Member Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    John Reed's book "Nothing could be finer than a Frisco Diner" page 87 has a complete list of the last northbound & southbound consist...Roger
     
  5. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Thanks Roger. I have that book on my shelf. It is the one Frisco book I didn’t look at last night
     
  6. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Ok, so looking at the consists in "Nothing could be finer than a Frisco Diner" along with the photographs and consist informatin posted on Mike Condren's site and Trainorders provides an interesting look at the operations of the last two Frisco trains.

    The consists John Reed provided show the consists leaving Kansas City and Birmingham. My interest is in the consists at Springfield, so Here's what I see:

    The last #101 arriving at Springfield Friday, December 8, 1967 (This assumes no cars were added/removed between KC and Springfield):
    E8A 2020 (in orange and white)
    E8A 20?? (Appears to be in the economy red scheme)
    SLSF 464 - Express box car rebuilt from troop sleeper - Mail to Birmingham
    SLSF 412 - Baggage Car - to Jacksonville
    SLSF 341 - Baggage Car - To Birmingham
    SLSF 388 - Baggage Car - To Memphis
    SLSF 1650 - Coach Lounge Buffet "Sterling Price" - to Memphis
    SLSF 1095 - Coach (rebuilt from Coach-Dorm ) "Manchester" - to Memphis
    SLSF 1250 - Coach "Olivette" - to Birmingham
    SLSF 9354 - ???? - to Birmingham
    UP 6-6-4 Pullman "American Navy" - to Birmingham

    The last #102 arriving at Springfield Saturday, December 9, 1967:
    E8A 2006 (in the economy red scheme)
    E8A 2017 (in Orange and White)
    SLSF 342 - Baggage Car - Birmingham To KC
    REX 6390 - Express Reefer - Jacksonville to LA
    SLSF 428 -Baggage Car - Birmingham to KC
    SLSF ??? - Baggage Car - Memphis to KC.
    SLSF 1650 - Coach Lounge Buffet "Sterling Price" - Memphis to KC
    SLSF 1095 - Coach (rebuilt from Coach-Dorm) "Manchester" - Memphis to KC
    SLSF 1251 - Coach (originally "Pasadena Hills") - Memphis to Springfield
    SLSF 1258 - Coach "Webster Groves" - Birmingham to KC

    Note that 1650 and 1095 basically performed a turn from KC to Memphis and back, so they appeared on both the last 101 and the last 102.

    1251 doesn't appear on the consist list, but it certainly appears in the photos. There are only glimpses of it in the photos on the websites listed above
    and in "Frisco in Color" Volume 2. It clearly was removed at Springfield, because it doesn't appear in the departing Springfield shots.

    It's also interesting to see a Pullman on the rear of the last 101.

    I really only have three questions remaining:
    1) What car was marked (on the consist list in John Reed’s book ) SF 9354. In Frisco passenger consists, SF generally refers to Frisco equipment, but I can't place the car number.
    2) There appears to be a baggage car added at Memphis. I don't know what the number was. Also, I don't know if it was before or after SLSF 428 in the consist.
    (other head end cars were removed at memphis, including SAL2, a Flexivan car).
    3) What was the trailing unit on #101. I can't make it out from any of the pictures.

    Paul
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
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  7. RogerRT

    RogerRT Staff Member Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Paul, In Donald D. Banwart's book "Rails, Rivalry & Romance" there are a couple of B/W photos of #101 arriving in Fort Scott, KS. on page 439-440...One shows the consist from SLSF #1095 southward towards the engines, the other shows the consist looking north from the 2nd engine...Unfortunately if the photographer would have moved to the left a little he would have got the engine number, but I can tell it was painted in the cigar-band style by the little hash marks along the side of the engine...According to my notes I know of only 3 engines painted in this scheme that were still on property in 1967, SLSF #2006, 2011 & 2012...

    Also in the 2nd photo looking north I can see an express boxcar, 3 baggage cars, 3 Frisco passengers cars & a couple of different colored cars on the rear, can't really see what they are as someone is standing in the way...

    There is also a photo of the last engine crew standing in front of SLSF #2020...

    According to the author on page #438 passenger cars from other railroads were added to Frisco trains at KC for through service to Jacksonville via Birmingham, he also mentioned cars from Southern & Southern Pacific running through...

    The Thayer Historical Society's Facebook page has a lot of Frisco photos, I think I've seen photos of the last passenger train there, if I find anything I'll let you know...Roger
     
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  8. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Thanks. That is one I don’t have.

    that would mean that it was either 2011 or 2012. 2006 was the leader on the last 102.

    ahhh... I mislabeled 464 in my listing above. It was one of the troop sleepers rebuilt for express service. I’ll fix that.

    From the consist list provided by John Reed, the last car would have been a yellow UP car.

    I knew about southern cars running through. I’ll have to do some research to see if that “SF 9354” could be a typo and should be SP or SR instead ( I guess it could even be Santa Fe).

    I know the SP numbered sleepers, so perhaps that is what the car is....

    Thanks. I am not a member of that group, but there were some photos are posted to one of the Frisco groups from there recently.

    Paul
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
  9. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    So a quick search shows SP9354 was a 13 DBR sleeper originally painted in the “Lark” scheme but eventually repainted silver with a red letter board band ( this is typically referred to as the sunset scheme).
    I can’t find any reference to a Santa Fe or Southern passenger car that would have had this number, so I am going to assume the SF 9354 in John Reeds book is a typo and it should be SP 9354.

    Paul
     
  10. mark

    mark Member

    Paul,

    SF would not be Santa Fe. The common railroad notation abbreviation for that line was AT.

    The abbreviation was derived from its formal name Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe (ATSF) Railway. AT was commonly used for train consist and switch lists when typed or written out in the days before computer generated lists.

    Also, on switch lists it was common to abbreviate and only use the last three digits of the car number. Other common shorthand abbreviations included Q for the Chicago, Burlington and Quincy (CBQ) Railroad, P for the Pennsylvania Railroad, WAB for the Wabash Railroad, MT or MTY for empty and LD for load.

    Railroaders, like many modelers, get confused, stress out and loose interest if one uses more than two or three letters in a word, phrase or sentence.

    Hope this helps.

    Thanks!

    Mark
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020

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