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ANOTHER GREAT FRISCO RAFFLE!

Kirkwood, MO, Rolla Subdivision, MP 12.7

Discussion in 'Depots G-P' started by choochoo63, Feb 28, 2009.

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  1. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    WS

    More great information, thanks!

    I certainly remember the Hill Behan Lumber store, it closed four or five years ago it seems. It is some kind of food store now.

    Appropriately, the lumber I used for the support framing and the legs holding up my Frisco layout, such as it is, came from that Hill Behan. On-line lumber!

    Did you ever check the files at the Kirkwood Library, or the Kirkwood Historical Society, for information they might have on file regarding the wreck of the Texas Special near Osage Hills on August 31, 1930?

    I wrote an article about that accident for The Frisco Museum's All Aboard, Volume 6, number 3, based on a newspaper article and on the ICC accident report. I always planned to go to the library or to the society and see what else they might have.

    But, like a lot of things, I have yet to do that.

    Ken
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2024
    meteor910, Mar 14, 2009
    #21
  2. railroadguy65

    railroadguy65 Member

    Kirkwood, MO. :)

    1926-1949 Sanborn maps.

    One is the map showing the location p12

    Two is the spot across from hill bean near the signal tower - unmarked - that was the depot?

    A view from the air

    Microsoft Live map view of Webster Groves, MO Frisco depot.

    Click the links below. Be patient while loading, it will take you there.

    If you do not have Microsoft Virtual Earth 3D loaded, it will ask you to do so.

    It should take you to the link, if not, re click on these link after you install it.

    http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v...444298945092&phscl=2.45470891568503&encType=1
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2024
    railroadguy65, Mar 15, 2009
    #22
  3. railroadguy65

    railroadguy65 Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2024
    railroadguy65, Mar 15, 2009
    #23
  4. WindsorSpring

    WindsorSpring Member

    The second of the two attachments, "Kirkwood Mo 1926-49 b.jpg", is a bit confusing because the part showing St. Joseph's College is placed on the map of the south end of Kirkwood east of the location of the Frisco depot.

    The college is over a half a mile west of the depot. Once the "code is broken" though, the combined map does show the two areas of interest at this stage of the thread, Windsor Springs and Kirkwood Frisco depots.

    Further, I agree with you that the unmarked building on the south side of the tracks and below, west, of the signal tower probably represents the post-1949 location of the Kirkwood MO Frisco depot.

    It is set back from Kirkwood Road by about the same frontage distance as Hill-Behan Lumber Company's building.

    Remember, the 1909 plat books, and probably Sanborn maps, show the station where the Hill-Behan lumber company is shown on the Sanborn map copy in the attachment.

    The pre-1949 location on the north side of the tracks may have been a bit closer to Kirkwood Road.

    I have no basis for saying this other than that the 1949 newspaper account of the depot relocation remarked that the new store going in, Hill-Behan Lumber, would have room for parking in front.

    That suggests the reporter might have wanted to note a change from less room between Kirkwood Road and the depot.

    Just a guess on my part that needs to be checked out.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2024
    WindsorSpring, Mar 15, 2009
    #24
    mountaincreekar likes this.
  5. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    The map showing the trackside building located right across the SLSF tracks from the Hill-Behan Lumber Co site is the same location of the Kirkwood depot.

    The picture is shown in Joe Collias' book Frisco Power, page 281, on the south side of the tracks at Kirkwood Road. Nifty!

    Now sure wish we could find something showing a clear picture of the Windsor Springs depot.

    Ken
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2024
    meteor910, Mar 16, 2009
    #25
  6. WindsorSpring

    WindsorSpring Member

    Ken (Meteor910) and I made another visit to the Kirkwood Historical Society this past Thursday to learn more about the Windsor Springs and Kirkwood depots.

    Examination of 1909 plot plans and their Sanborn maps confirmed both Kirkwood and Windsor Springs depots were on the north side of the tracks prior to 1949.

    Other information in their archives gave details of the Kirkwood depot move to the south side of the tracks in 1949.

    One person at the Historical Society recalled the Windsor Springs depot was small and resembled a "tool shed" rather than a depot.

    George
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2024
    WindsorSpring, Mar 28, 2009
    #26
  7. railroadguy65

    railroadguy65 Member

    I have always been amazed at these little structures along the line. :)

    Who actually used them?

    I guess if it was raining or snowing pretty hard, people use them.

    But even then only 1-3 people, tightly packed, could fit. :eek:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2024
    railroadguy65, Mar 28, 2009
    #27
  8. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    For what it is worth, my SLSF Eastern Division ETT No 27 dated 9/27/59, shows a 10-car siding at Windsor Springs, MP 13.2, branching off of the westbound main track.

    This same siding is also shown in my copy of ETT No 34 dated 2/4/45, so it was there for a while.

    MP 13.2 is just west of the Big Bend/Geyer Road crossing that we have been discussing.

    This is where we think the Windsor Springs commuter "stop" was located.

    This siding is no longer there.

    Ken
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2024
    meteor910, Mar 28, 2009
    #28
  9. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I just took another close look at Don's (Frisco1522) picture of SLSF 1512 at Windsor Springs posted earlier above.

    If you look closely at the main line that SLSF 1512 is on, ahead of the locomotive, you can see the rail heads of the siding at Windsor Springs I referred to in my posting immediately above.

    The track angling off to the right in the picture is the secondary main, which is still there.

    The siding is gone.

    Ken
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2024
    meteor910, Mar 28, 2009
    #29
  10. WindsorSpring

    WindsorSpring Member

    On March 6, Frisco1522 (Don Wirth), posted a very fine photograph of 1512 pulling Number 7 "The Bluebonnet" westbound through Windsor Springs near Kirkwood.

    It was posted on this thread.

    http://www.frisco.org/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=7416&d=1236054469 .

    The photo showed a small, white building behind the rear of the train. The curve in the rails of the eastbound track, south main, pointed to it.

    What appears to be a message board out front led Don to wonder whether it was the Windsor Springs depot or the Kirkwood depot.

    Ken (Meteor910) and I are convinced the building is the Kirkwood Frisco depot

    We went to the site and relocated the photographer's position for Don's picture. Note Ken's (Meteor910) attached picture (DSCN3456.jpg) has duplicated the photographers position very
    well.

    However, changes in the scene add some difficulty. These include buildings, crossing gates, tall high-tension power transmission poles and traffic over the Big Bend and Geyer Road
    crossings.

    Photograph (DSCN3456a.jpg) annotates the same scene. Yours truly (1) (in Frisco Passenger red?), is standing on the west side of Geyer Road north of the tracks. The top of the yellow flag (2) on the pole is fifteen feet above the ground to simulate the height of a railroad car at that location.

    The zoomed-in third picture (DSCN3456b.jpg) shows that, despite being partially hidden by the stoplight pole, a tan-colored building (3) is visible in the photograph just to the right of the curve of the south rail. This is in the same relative position as the white building on Don's photograph.

    The fourth and fifth photos (P3270002a.jpg and P3270002z.jpg) show this building from a closer vantage point on the rails. The sixth photograph (P3290007.jpg) confirms this is the boom of a bucket truck and small shelter adjacent to the hardware building at Kirkwood Road on the north side of the tracks.

    This identifies the building in Don's picture as the Kirkwood depot because it confirms the Kirkwood depot would have been visible from the photographer's vantage point in the 1930s scene.

    Ken's last picture (DSCN3450.jpg) demonstrates "reverse railfan's luck". Though we expected an uninterrupted track survey, BNSF ran a westbound ballast train!

    George
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2024
    WindsorSpring, Mar 29, 2009
    #30
    mountaincreekar likes this.
  11. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    While at the Kirkwood Historical Society today, the librarian there, a nice lady who is really sharp, took a look at my print of Don's posting of SLSF 1512 pulling the Bluebonnet westbound at Geyer and Big Bend.

    She noticed the shed evident at the left edge of the photograph, and wondered if that might be the Windsor Springs depot the gentleman George (WindsorSprings) and I talked with last Thursday at the KHS, recalled as being the Windsor Springs SLSF commuter stop.

    I have poured over this print today. It was far more enjoyable than looking at the OU disaster vs UNC!

    I think not, this is not a Frisco commuter depot in my opinion. I think it is behind the fence on the west side of Big Bend.

    Ken
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2024
    meteor910, Mar 29, 2009
    #31
  12. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Attached is a going away shot of the BNSF ballast train that rudely interrupted our research work at Windsor Springs last Thursday. :rolleyes:

    Ken
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2024
    meteor910, Mar 30, 2009
    #32
  13. renapper (Richard Napper RIP 3/8/2013)

    renapper (Richard Napper RIP 3/8/2013) Passed away March 8, 2013

    Here is my picture of the Kirkwood, MO depot.

    Richard
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2024
    renapper (Richard Napper RIP 3/8/2013), Feb 23, 2011
    #33
    mountaincreekar likes this.
  14. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Richard,

    Thanks.

    This picture is of the final small Kirkwood depot that was relocated there from a small stop down the line around Stanton, MO. I cannot recall its name right now.

    This depot was first placed on the north side of the tracks at Kirkwood Road, later Lindbergh Boulevard. Later it was relocated to the south side, where it is in your photograph.

    Prior to this, there was a much larger Kirkwood depot there on the north side of the tracks. There is a hunt underway for a photograph of this much more substantial Kirkwood depot, but so far no luck.

    We do have a diagram of it, but really would like a photograph for the Kirkwood Historical Society.

    Ken
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2024
    meteor910, Feb 23, 2011
    #34
  15. renapper (Richard Napper RIP 3/8/2013)

    renapper (Richard Napper RIP 3/8/2013) Passed away March 8, 2013

    Ken,

    I did not know that, I shall keep an eye out for the other depot.

    The above picture was taken by Howard D. Killam in 1953.

    Richard
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2024
    renapper (Richard Napper RIP 3/8/2013), Feb 23, 2011
    #35
  16. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Richard,

    You will be a hero here in Kirkwood if you can find a photograph of the original Kirkwood depot, which was located on the northwest side of Kirkwood Road, aka Lindbergh Blvd everywhere but in Kirkwood.

    As I noted above, the Kirkwood depot in your picture was the second depot, much smaller than the first. It was relocated there by the Frisco from Anaconda, MO, which was down the Rolla Subdivision close to Stanton, MO.

    The relocated depot was first placed on the site of the former Kirkwood depot on the northwest corner in place of the original depot as noted above.

    Eventually, it was relocated across the tracks to the southwest corner for reasons unknown, but probably because the Frisco wanted to sell the northwest corner property to Hill-Behan Lumber, who built a lumber yard there.

    Ken
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2024
    meteor910, Feb 23, 2011
    #36
  17. Mike.P

    Mike.P Member

    Does anyone have a copy of A Pictorial Glimpse of Early Kirkwood?

    A gentleman told me that there is a small photograph of a two story Frisco station in the book.

    I have not been able to find a copy yet, so I am hoping one of you have one to verify this.

    Mike P
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2024
    Mike.P, Jun 20, 2012
    #37
  18. Oldguy

    Oldguy Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Not to be a smart-a$$, but if you have a 10 spot, copies are available from Amazon and on Craigslist.

    Just did a quick google search.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2024
    Oldguy, Jun 20, 2012
    #38
  19. Mike.P

    Mike.P Member

    Hi oldguy

    In this day and age I think I can find more usage for $10 than to spend it on one small photograph.

    I will see if the Kirkwood Library has a copy.

    Thanks
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2024
    Mike.P, Jun 26, 2012
    #39
  20. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    I emailed the guy on Craigslist and he told me there is no picture of the Frisco 2 story depot in the publication.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2024
    frisco1522, Jun 26, 2012
    #40
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