Hey Keith!

Discussion in 'Diesel Locomotives' started by Coonskin, Jul 7, 2015.

  1. Coonskin

    Coonskin Member

    HO scale:

    How hard is it to put a sound decoder and speaker inside a Kato NW2?

    Same goes for the old Stewart/Kato F unit?
     
  2. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Andre, regardless of decoder, the Kato NW2 requires machining of the frame halves for decoder and speaker installation and isolation of the motor from the frame halves. For reliability, it needs re-configuring of power delivery from the trucks to the decoder. With my Sweet Sound speaker, however the sound is really good.

    The Stewart/Kato F units are relatively easy.
     
  3. Coonskin

    Coonskin Member

    Thanks Keith.

    Figured as much on the Kato NW2. Kato crammed that thing full of weight and used a very unorthodox mechanism. The end result, i.e. its running quality, is great... but DCC wasn't even thought of "back then" and getting same into it now looks to be a nightmare.

    Is machining something you also do?

    Reason for asking: Thought I might install DCC/Sound into my old Kansas City & Gulf Kato NW2 so it can be used on my new and improved upcoming "KC Lines" layout.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Jim James

    Jim James Staff Member Staff Member

    I love that weathering job! Adding sound will really breathe life into it.
     
  5. Coonskin

    Coonskin Member

    Thank you much Jim for saying so. It's appreciated.

    I'm sort of tossing around the idea of re-introducing my old KC&G theme into my upcoming "KC Lines" West Bottoms layout. Previously, I was only going to go with prototype roads of the KC area... but it's really tempting to also use my KC&G stuff as "one of the KC lines". I'm still thinking that over. A detriment to the idea is that the motive power of the KC&G theme was painted/decaled/weathered to reflect a bankrupt line of the late 1960s (actually 1970, I think I recall) that was in the beginnings of a reorganization. My reason for such a concept was to be able to run 1st generation power in very tatty condition as part of the theme (can't help it, I'm a sucker for junky engines), with a few shopped units alongside them as a contrast. This I did, and it was working for me "then". (Then: The KC&G layout was dismantled early in '98 prior to a move.) However, with my "KC Lines" theme, I'm now looking at modeling the early 1960s (to gain some desired aspects)... and my tatty KC&G stuff might look out of place for the early 1960s. Ah, enough of this, I need to update my "KC Lines: West Bottoms in HO Scale" thread and catch things up instead of typing it all out here.

    Anyway, here's another piece of KC&G motive power that very likely will find a place on my upcoming "KC Lines" layout...
     

    Attached Files:

  6. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Andre, the NW2 is one of the fun ones. Yes, I have a milling machine and can make that NW2 sing.
     
  7. Coonskin

    Coonskin Member

    Sounds good, Keith! (Note the pun???)

    I don't think I'll be moving quickly on this, but I am wondering if some of my KC&G stuff can be updated to DCC/Sound. From what I've read and your comments past, I can have DCC/Sound installed into the following KC&G engines I have:

    * Stewart/Kato F's.

    * Kato NW2

    * Atlas/Kato RS-3's.

    Also, I figure if I should decide to use the Front Range-based KC&G GP7's, those too, could be easily converted to DCC/Sound. (Lots of room inside the shells.)

    The ol' KC&G may roll again!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2015
  8. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Ming, I can make them all sing.

    BTW, I still have an Alco 244 Tsunami decoder here with your name on it; you said to hang on to it for you. It will work in one of those RS-3s.
     
  9. Coonskin

    Coonskin Member

    Dadgum... forgot all about that Tsunami. Have I already paid you for it?

    I have decided I will be using a mix of decoders so that not all engines of the same make/model will sound identically the same. (i.e. HO models of locomotives that were of the same prototype make/model.) Thus, that Tsunami will go into one of the several Atlas/Kato RS-3's I have, and I will also use LokSound, and maybe even QSI thrown into the mix. Variety is the spice of my life! I came up with this idea after living with all the BLI SW/NW's I have: They all sound identical. I don't want that. Very often engines have their own audio "signature" when it comes to sound, whether it's a GP7, or an Alco C420, whatever. IMHO, identical sound sameness (exhaust/effects) is not cool.

    Anyhoo... you can hit me with an email if I owe you some money and I'll get it off to you while we wait for me to poop or get off the pot about what sound into what locomotive, which one first, etc.

    Quick question: Can a Tsunami be programed so it can also be manually notched as LokSound can?

    I really need to get my ship together and come up with "standardized" F-button functions for all my engines, if that's possible.
     
  10. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    The decoder is already paid for.
    Tsunami decoders have a graphic equalizer built in that can allow you to customize the sound of the prime mover so engines will sound different despite having the same decoder. Manual notching is a feature that can be enabled in Tsunamis.
    As far as the Function buttons go, the defaults for Tsunamis are F0=Headlights, F1=Bell, F2=Horn, F3=Short Horn, F4=Dynamics(if so-equipped), F5=Lighting Function 5, F6=Lighting Function 6, F7=Dimmer, F8=Mute, F9=Radiator Fans or Notch Up, F10=Compressor or Notch Down, F11=Brakes, F12=Coupler clank. The functions can be remapped to other keys with some limitations.
    On your VO-1000, I set up the Braking Function on F6, which is the convention around here since that is accessible with any DCC system throttle.

    Not all decoder manufacturers support the functions in the same way.
     
  11. Coonskin

    Coonskin Member

    Good info Keith. Thanks.

    I have an NCE ProCab w/wireless capability. I think I only have F1 - F0. Might be time to upgrade my primary NCE controller.
     
  12. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Very few people are interested in functions beyond headlights, bell, horn short horn, dynamics (if equipped), dimming, mute and brakes. All of these fit the 0-9 keypad for most DCC throttles.
     
  13. Coonskin

    Coonskin Member

    Hmm. Well, I need to decide which Atlas Classic or Kato RS-3 gets the Tsunami Alco 244 decoder. Choices, choices:

    * Atlas/Kato Rock Island "Rocket" scheme.

    * Atlas Classic Rock Island maroon and pinstripe scheme.

    * Atlas Classic MKT original scheme.

    * Atlas/Kato KC&G #255

    * Atlas/Kato KC&G #269

    Then there's the Kato RS-2 that's earmarked to become a Frisco Alco-powered locomotive... but I think I want LokSound in it.

    Back to the Kato NW2: Will I be able to retain the interior? Can warm yellow headlights be substituted for the cold blue Kato-supplied LEDs? How good is the "Sugar Cube" speaker? Any YouTubes of it that I can listen to? (Need to go do a search for that next.)

    Okay, back from YouTube. Found a pair of direct comparison Tsunami Athearn Genesis w/stock speaker and a Tsunami Athearn Genesis with a pair of Sugar Cubes.

    In this first video, you can definitely tell the higher frequencies are not as prominent in the Sugar Cube equipped GP7.


    [video=youtube;FRMTvaiBaaU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRMTvaiBaaU[/video]


    However, the end user tweaked the upper range EQ's of the Tsunami to better fit the Sugar Cube, and WOW!! That's a lot of sound for such a tiny speaker!


    [video=youtube;Jfahbiaqma8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jfahbiaqma8[/video]


    Would there be a single or dual Sugar Cube installation within the tight confines of a Kato NW2?
     
  14. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    1) The interior of the cab will remain intact the way I do the installation. The same would apply on Atlas S-2s and 4s.

    2) I always replace the manufacturer-supplied LEDs with bright warm white if they are not warm white. Most OEMs are cool white or yellow.

    3) A single Sweet Sound (my version) of sugar cube style speaker is used and will sound impressive.
     

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