Hallmark 4500 question

Discussion in '4-8-4 Northern' started by skyraider, Jan 26, 2018.

  1. skyraider

    skyraider Member

    Was the Hallmark 4500 class 4-8-4 a dog like the 4200 class 2-8-2 made by Dong Jin or was the 4500 a much better model? I've never held one in my hands and don't know anything about it.

    Thanks,

    Paul Moore
     
  2. skyraider

    skyraider Member

    p.s. not just the mechanism but the correctness of the model--was it close to the prototype?
     
  3. Steamnut

    Steamnut cinder sniffer

    Personal observations...

    I have 3 of the 4500s and two of the 4200s. My 4500s have always ran well, the 4200s not so much. The 4200s had a major issue with shorts thru the insulated drivers effectively making the model unusable unless you replaced the driver set.

    As far as accuracy, you can't really use that term with those two. :LOL: If you want to make a accurate model from either, you'd have a lot of work to do. Others might chime in on specifics. Mr. Wirth on the board here is one of the best resources for such information.
     
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  4. Brad Slone

    Brad Slone Member Frisco.org Supporter

    The 4200 were dogs, the only one I ever saw that did the class justice was one that Don had rebuilt, by the time he was done with it I don't know how much of the original locomotives were left. As far as the 4500, I had a few over the years, they did run much better than the 4200 but certainly did have their accuracy issues. Probably in my mind the biggest being the extra 5' or so of length in the tender. The ones I had I cut down to a closer to correct length and that helped the overall appearance tremendously. Ultimately they are no GPM by any means, but they can be picked up at about a quarter of the cost, so it's kind of which ever direction you want to go. Very close and very high or fairly close and a lot less, at least that's my take.

    Brad
     
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  5. skyraider

    skyraider Member

    Thanks for the input.

    Paul Moore
     
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  6. skyraider

    skyraider Member


    Brad,

    Thanks for the specific input. If you could get an unpainted one that ran well, knowing the inaccuracies that exist, what would be a fair price?

    Paul Moore
     
  7. Brad Slone

    Brad Slone Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Paul,

    Oh, it's hard to say certainly for an unpainted version I sure wouldn't give more than $500, maybe less. They show up from time to time, brasstrains had a couple a while back, I kind of thought they were overpriced. There is one on ebay right now starting bid at $450, the paint looks good, but in my opinion the tender lettering is off. Painting the engine is the hardest, the tender is not much different than painting a boxcar. If a person could pick it up worth the money microscale makes pin stripe white decals that you could use on the engine. The triple F decal set can usually be found on ebay as well for the tender.

    Brad
     
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  8. skyraider

    skyraider Member

    Thanks.

    Paul
     
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  9. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    I think I have a set of the FFF Champ decals.
     
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  10. skyraider

    skyraider Member

    Thanks, Don. If I end up with one, I'll let you know.

    By the way, Dan Glasure sold one of your 2-8-2's not terribly long ago (couple of months, maybe). I didn't see it on his site until it was gone. It made me sick that I missed it!!!!! What a beautiful job you did. I saved the photos from his website to remind me what an HO scale Mike is supposed to look like. Here's one shot of it. The proportions, the "weightiness", everything about it is just spectacular. It looks like a miniature of the real thing instead of a model. What a difference between yours and the Hallmark heavy mikes.

    Back to the 4500 class...what is your opinion other than the tender length? By the way, the individual I might buy one from had the opportunity to pick his out at Bobbye Halls in Dallas and chose one that ran extremely well. that's at least one good thing.

    Thanks, and I'll let you know if I end up with it.

    Paul Moore
     

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  11. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    The 4151 was sold to Bill Sprenger and when he passed, Brasstrains bought the collection. I scratchbuilt the engine because it was sort of unique and had a Coffin feedwater heater which made the smokebox longer. Bill made me an offer I couldn't refuse. I don't remember what Glasure sold it for.
    As for the 4500s, I recall working over the running gear, removing some oversized pieces on the valve gear. The ones I had were built with the boiler sitting too low on the frame. I think I raised the boilers nearly 3/32". One was so bad that the last two drivers were rubbing the boiler. I think at one time I had three of them. An oil burner and two coal burners. I built the tenders for the coal burners and cut the offending 5' out of the oil tender. I may still have some pix of them somewhere.
    I raised cain with Bobbye about them being so bad and how did the tender get so far wrong. Hell, the 4501 was right there in Dallas and all they had to do was go measure it. I was amused at the oil tender and ashpans on the engine. So long ago.
     
  12. skyraider

    skyraider Member

    I wondered if it had been Bill's model after you built it. Bill, a friend of his named Paul, Jack Hutchens and I rendezvoused at the December Oklahoma City swap meet every year back in the middle 90's up until about 2000, when I moved to Colorado and quit going. We all got tables there and had a standing Saturday night dinner meeting every year. He ended up with several of my model, too, but they were nothing like yours!!

    I studied the tender for awhile and can't determine for sure where the extra 5' is. Please tell me where it's too long.

    Thanks,

    Paul Moore
     
  13. Brad Slone

    Brad Slone Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Paul,

    Karl Brand did an article in the old FMIG newsletters many years ago on the subject of shortening the tenders. He did a really good job of spelling out the differences and adjustments necessary. I've got a pretty good idea where the 4100 ended up.

    Brad
     
  14. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    The extra length is all in the oil bunker. Water deck is OK.
     
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  15. skyraider

    skyraider Member

    Hi Brad,

    Thanks for the great info. Since I wasn't around then, I've never seen or even heard of the FMIG newsletters. Maybe a search on Karl Brandt or the tender shortening will turn up something. The research is half the fun.

    If I end up with the one I'm considering, I'll post photos.
     
  16. skyraider

    skyraider Member

    Thanks, Don.

    Paul
     
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  17. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

  18. skyraider

    skyraider Member

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  19. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    9E24CC1B-0479-4426-B044-699D1D97F7B1.jpeg The tender length is a problem to be sure. There is also a difference between the tender sides through the coal/oil bunker area that needs to be corrected if you go with the coal burning version. The Buckeye trucks on the model were horrible performers. I replaced mine with Overland’s Buckeye trucks.

    I have a HMK 4500 that been in the box for decades that I’d sell if interested. I also have the Triple F Wing decals and another set of Overland Buckeyes.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
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  20. paul slavens

    paul slavens Member

    Karl, I am interested in your new old Hallmark 4500. I wanted to buy one when they came out, but $250 was not in my budget ( I was 12 years old) lol. Would you please send me an email at slavens55@yahoo.com . thanks
     

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