I received the monthly Athearn announcements email like I normally do a few days ago. Just out of curiosity I looked at the roads that will be produced on a new run of SD40-2's (KCS, a road that changed with the Frisco is among them ) But I noticed something else. There price has risen pretty steep since the release of the SD45 last year. The price of these new units are $155 a piece! I think only a year or two ago units were $100, then it went to $110. I emailed them asking is it cost of production, or did they improve something? They replied a few days ago. Here is what the email read: "Thank-you for your inquiry. Please note that due to the rising costs of materials, shipping and production we have been forced to increase our prices." So I thought would pass this along to warn every one that on future Athearn products, they will be more expensive. Ethan
Re: Warning about future Athearn products Man, my favorite diesel is the SD40-2. I would love to have one factory painted for Frisco.
Re: Warning about future Athearn products They made one a couple years ago, but they sold out rather quick and are hard to come by. I got lucky and have one in my collection. Ethan
Re: Warning about future Athearn products Pretty dang expensive for a fancy boxcar...Athearn has lost a lot of respect because of how they've butchered Roundhouse, albeit, the parent Horizon.
Re: Warning about future Athearn products After buying Athearn locomotives almost exclusively for the past 20 years, I think I'm finally going to look elsewhere for motive power. Earlier this year, I started a thread entitled "Athearn Woes" concerning a pesky growling noise and loss of power in a RTR GP35. Found out soon afterward that many others were experiencing this problem as well. I recently noticed that my SD45 had lost a lot of power. When I took it apart, I discovered that the rear truck had a broken wire, which had caused it to lose half of it's power. A good friend and fellow member of this forum recently gave me a new-in-box Athearn BB Frisco SD40-2, circa mid-1990's. Even after repairing the wire in the SD45, the BB model can out-pull it. And I hope that no one perceives this as offensive or political, but a couple of things caught my eye on the box that it came in: "$44.00" and "Made in USA". Pat Moreland, Union Mo. "Birds on the Bat, 11 in '11"
Re: Warning about future Athearn products To be fair, Athearn have increased the level of detailing on the SD40-2 compared to just last year, though not compared to the SD45. And the cost of labour in China is going up too. Soon it will be cheaper to have production closer to home again.
Re: Warning about future Athearn products I have talked with several railroad analysts who indicate that rising labor costs in China will drive more production to North America, most likely Mexico whose labor is less expensive than the US. Not sure when all this will happen but railroads with direct connections to Mexico should benefit the most.
Re: Warning about future Athearn products Personally, I never liked the Athearn "Ready-to-Run" locomotives because their paint jobs for Frisco were incorrect (red painted handrails) and they still tend to "growl" even after breaking in and lubing with new lube. I have several of the old "Blue Box" Athearn locos and have been pleased with their performance even though they are considered a cheap "beginner's" kit product. Howbeit, I find that todays Athearn has slipped considerably in quality to that of the old Blue Box products, therefore this old boy has switched to Mantua and IHC steam locos for the old stuff (even though they are not prototypically accurate, they run smooth) and Atlas for smooth running Frisco diesel locos. Athearn has to prove to me they have improved their quality to win me back. FriscoGeorge
Re: Warning about future Athearn products As the person who works with the product development coordinator for Athearn, who by the way is very cooperative, the negative tone of this thread is becoming very disturbing starting with the first word in the title. These very same issues (i.e. growling motors, incorrect paint jobs, etc.,etc., etc.) have been expressed so many times that maybe we all should be leery of even looking at Athearn models in the hobby shop, let alone thinking of buying them, which is so bogus. Athearn has produced more great Frisco models in the last two years than almost all other manufacturers combined. Don't get me wrong, this is an open forum and everyone has the right to express their opinions, but this particular bash has the potential of doing more harm than good. I hope you get my drift!
Re: Warning about future Athearn products The following has nothing to do with Athearn's offerings, but only a general observation concerning Chinese production in general: Every indicator that I'm reading is saying that Chinese workers are demanding to be more fairly compensated, production materials are rising, as well as shipping costs, which is causing the retail price of goods imported from China to continue to rise. Thus some mfg'er are beginning to migrate back toward the USA/etc. Case in point: Gerbing, a motorcycle riding clothier, is pulling their mfg' back to the USA on account of same. This is only one example. This situation is not specific to Athearn. Bottom line: The price of toys is rising and there isn't much that can be done about it on the short term. Andre
Re: Warning about future Athearn products I have been in this hooby for fifty years, and I do not know about you, but I would not be still doing this if it had not been for Athearn Diesels, blue box, at all! I have 352 powered HO scale locomotives, both steam and diesels; 144 of them are Athearn, and I would not trade any of them. I have not had the gear braking problem with any of them, every one has been cleaned, tuned, lubricated; all with the original Athearn motors, non of which draw more than 0.2 amp while running. I do not want or need any can motors for any of them. My one and only complaint is I do not like the new thin plastic handrails, they just break too easily, and I have told Athearn that, but I am sure they will not go back to the metal ones. Just one person's oppinion.
Re: Warning about future Athearn products I agree with Richard's post in that Athearn has done a lot for the hobby over the years, and in particular, the Frisco modeling community. They have produced models of all of the post-1960 Frisco diesels, except for the SD38. No other manufacturer has done this, to my knowledge anyway. My gripe is not with the appearance of the models-they have the blue boxes beat by a long shot in that respect. However, there are a few minor quality and performance issues which I believe they could and should address. I cannot believe that the cost of Chinese labor has increased so much that it justifies a 50% increase in each RTR locomotive that they sell. Pat Moreland, Union Mo.
Re: Warning about future Athearn products Cost has nothing to do with price, at least to a sophisticated marketer. Athearn's prices are based on their perception of the value of their products when compared to those of their competitors. In my view, Athearn has always been an excellent marketer. Ken
Re: Warning about future Athearn products I never intended for this to be a "bash Athearn" thread or a "bash stuff being made in China" thread. I simply posted this to warn people that prices are rising. Ethan I would also like to say that I have overstated somethings about Athearn in the past. I had some difficulties with them not running well, and I exaggerated, probably because a majority of my power is made by Atlas, which hasn't given me problems. But now I have worked them over with a few tricks I taught my self and they run fine now. Athearn does make good stuff, no denying that. And the fact that they a nice enough to produce Frisco models is a great thing.
Re: Warning about future Athearn products I got started in N scale, and all of the locomotives were real POCs in the 1970s. In HO, I started out with Athearn, and aside from Atlas, Spectrum, and the Proto series, I haven't strayed far from the old blue-box! Even now, I have blue-box locomotives I am loathe to part with, altho I have retired my old "wide-body" GP7s and GP35s. Every manufacturer will have its supporters and detractors- fact of life. Personally, I have no real issues with any of them, outside of the obvious toylike Tyco junk.
Re: Warning about future Athearn products I have been in this hobby since I was 13 and will turn 39 on Thursday. If it had not been for the quality of the Athearn locomotives, I would be sticking to my guns and not allow ANY DIESEL on my layout at all. But because of the FRISCO Locomotives that Athearn has come out with, plus a few REALLY GOOD DEALS I got off Ebay, my roster has taken on a new direction in the fact that I now will be having 2 layouts in one. One will be STRICTLY FRISCO in WINTER 1945, ALL STEAM, then the other half of the layout which will intersect at an interlocking, will be FRISCO and SANTA FE from 1965 to present!!! I am particular with my rolling stock only to the point of NO TYCO, older IHC, CONCOR, BACHMANN, To put it in a nut shell, NO REALLY CHEAP STUFF THAT WILL DERAIL STANDING STILL!!!!! and nothing without body mounted couplers!!! BUT all in all. Just to place my 2 cents in here, I am equally shocked at the rising cost of everything in the model railroading hobby, but that just takes me back to my days when I was 13.......I just have to save my pennies until I get enough to buy what I really really want!!!!!!!! I have never agreed with any company, ever taking their business to other countries to save money on labor only to turn around and charge us the consumer more to cover the import charges, but, what can we do? Our choices are limited......buy what is offered at the asking price, or go back to basics and do like alot of us do, build what we want ourselves. There aren't very many do it yerselfers out there left or so I heard. I am still one. and will continue to be as long as parts are availabe!!!!! But if ATHEARN or KATO, BACHMANN, BLM, or ATLAs or any of the top brands we rely the most for quality and reliability as well and detail and prototypical correctness, comes out with a FRISCO model I cannot live without. I will do what I can to get one!!! I even ordered one of the GPM FRISCO 4500's but due to a gliche in the ordering process, I didnt get mine. But someday I will have one. In the mean time, I will wait everything out and continue to ponder on my layout idea, as I populate my roster!!!!
Re: Warning about future Athearn products Perhaps "Price increases for Athearn products on the horizon" would have been more appropriate than WARNING... Just sayin' ~mike
Re: Warning about future Athearn products I hope that what I posted earlier was not perceived as "bashing". That's definitely not what I intended. To sum up my feelings, the hobby is becoming out of reach for a guy making less than $40,000 a year and trying to raise a family and pay a mortgage such as myself. I'm not saying thats Athearn's fault in particular. It's just the way it is. I guess I will have to operate my cheap stuff (Bachmann, IHC, Con Cor-yes I have a few of each of those) with the garage door down, so that no one can see inside and get a good laugh. Pat Moreland, Union Mo.
Pat: Doing the best one can and taking care of his family is something to never be ashamed of. The economics of our country are such that it is almost mandatory to be a dual income family if married. Those that must go it alone have a very tough row to hoe. I understand completely on the price of our toys. Given our empty nest, my wife and I are classed as DINC's. (Dual Income No Children.) We both make very good money for todays economy, yet I still have personal problems with the price of model railroading. It really is getting more difficult for me to justify spending $300 for an (S scale) engine. Just the way I am. If you're getting to be in the same boat (that is, tough to justify significant expenditures for your hobby), may I suggest V scale to you? (V scale = Virtual scale. i.e. Computer simulation.) V scale is one of the most cost-effective ways to enjoy the hobby of railroading I have ever been involved in. I use the ancient (by computer reckoning) program "Microsoft Train Simulator" (with all the updates and utility add-ons). I have the programs I need to build routes (virtual layouts), paint equipment, even build objects (structures/etc). Since I seldom purchase other's commerical offerings (I make and sell my own stuff), I am out pennies compared to mega-bucks to enjoy a form of the railroading hobby. Using Microsoft's Train Simulator (or MSTS for short), a hobbiest can literally have access to, and enjoy, THOUSANDS of free products developed by the huge freeware community that is involved with MSTS. If you have a decent computer... there are hundreds of V scale routes (layouts) waiting, thousands of engines/rolling stock, structures, etc, etc, etc... all for free. Even the commercial side offers ridiculous value. Using one of my products as an example, here's the particulars of my diesel route called the "Arkansas & Ozarks Subdivision": * Route length: About 40 miles of detailed scenery and track. (These are actual miles. It will take you as long to traverse those miles as it would in real life.) * Equipment supplied: 12 custom built A&M Alco's, something like 50(?) custom built rolling stock pieces. * Activities supplied: (Consider an "Activity" like an "Operating session" on a model RR layout.) Over 24 activities come with the A&O Sub. Averaging 1 - 2 hours per activity to "operate", that's something like 50-80 hours worth of entertainment in the supplied activities alone. And the price for this? 25 bucks. Yup, for less the the price of a Kadee boxcar, you get all of the above. As you can see, even if you decide to purchase a few V scale products (among the several commercial suppliers), the price of V scale is very, very cost effect. Case in point, an individual commercially offered engine is about $1 a piece. (Tpyically sold in packs of 12 or more different engs/numbers/etc.) Once comfortable with V scale, you can create your own Activities, modify the route, etc, etc, etc! For those that have the need to indulge in the hobby of model railroading in a cost effective manner, there is nothing that can do that better than V scale. To help you see the potentional in V scale, here's a direct link to my adversting blurb about the above mentioned A&O Sub. Check out the pictures at the bottom of the page. Now, lest you think this is an attempt on my rope you into V scale so I can sell you the A&O Sub: If you enter V scale and decide its for you, send me an email and I'll give you the A&O Sub, gratis. Here's the link: http://www.vscalecreations.com/AOtext.htm As for Frisco in V scale? These following Frisco engines (and more) are available in a very inexpensive pack offered by a friend, see the attachments. If you have more questions, simply email me direct at: laming at cebridge dot net and I'll try to answer them, and/or point you in the correct direction. Andre
Sheesh, Andre, here I am getting very little done on the layout and you go and hang an offer like that out. A display of recently invisible willpower is called for. But here's another offer: Depending on where the budget-challenged and/or space-limited railfan may be located, there's probably an operations group that is open to new folks. We certainly are in NWA. Ten layouts of various periods and geography that need folks to come run 'em. And another: just this morning a fellow at the office asked about places to get supplies; he was thinking about doing some architectural models. Well, we don't have a wealth of such supplies available around here, but I can hook him up with layout owners who need kits and kitbashes built. There's probably someone like that in most places. So the question is not really the budget if you want to enjoy the hobby, it's getting out and finding the opportunity. So call me up and make me get ready to host a session. Or if someone would like to build the Whirlpool plant in N scale.......
