I have a photo of Frisco and Union Pacific locomotives parked side-by-side at Grand Island, Nebraska, as well as Frisco power in UP freight trains at Lawrence, Kansas, in 1967 or 1968. I seem to remember reading something about the two roads having some kind of run-through agreement but am unclear on the details and to no surprise, cannot remember where I originally got the information. Does anyone have any additional information on this? Thanx! Greg Stout
Starting about 1967 the UP, Frisco, and SCL initiated run-through trans-continental service with trains NWF, Northwest Forwarder (No Where Fast) and FSE, Frisco South East (Frisco Slow Express). Initially Frisco units could be found as far west as Cheyenne, but by '69, North Platte was as far west as the Frisco units usually traveled. SCL units usually traveled as far north as Memphis or Springfield, but it wasn't uncommon to see them in Kansas City. Originally, the Frisco contributed its U25Bs and GP-35's to the pool, and the UP provided GP3os, GP30Bs and GP35s. Later power included newer Frisco SD45s, GP39AC, GP38-2, U30B, B30-7 units. Union Pacific added newer SD40, SD40-2, U30C and C30-7 units. Within my father's circle, the term "Yellow Canary" was used to describe FSE and NWF, although the term could also apply to any UP unit. Perform a search on NWF or FSE; there are a few other postings scattered around the site.
So did this arrangement last after the Seaboard's merger with Atlantic Coast Line? And did any of these trains, including the UP, travel as far northeast as St. Louis on SL-SF trackage? Be interesting to know all the different types of engines and what paint schemes they could be found in while traveling on the Frisco system. Pat Moreland, Union, MO
I've seen SLSF, UP, ACL and SCL engines go through Springfield on the NWF and FSE, but I don't recall if they were mixed?? I believe those trains ran after the ACL-SAL merger. The trains used the Frisco Kansas City-Memphis-Birmingham line and didn't go through St. Louis. Unless there might have been a wreck or washout to avoid , on a very temporary basis, the trains might have been routed through St. Louis. However, due to the long routing, transit time delay and added, expense this would have been an extraordinary occurrence. Tom
Tom, I'm a member of the ACL/SAL/SCL Historical Society, among others. An excellent group! They have had several articles in their publication "Lines South" over the past year or so dealing with Frisco run-throughs in one form or another. I've not gone back and checked, but as I recall, they usually had four units, two SCL, two SLSF. SLSF power was GP38ACs/38-2's and various early U-boats. I recall one article where the SCL crew complained that the Frisco 38's pulled well at low speed, but did not have enough "umph" to run the train as fast as they desired. Ken
I remember seeing a southbound freight rolling thru Miami, OK in the summer of 1978 with a UP power consist on the point. I coulda sworn I saw covered hoppers behind it, so I'm guessing it was a unit grain train running thru from Kansas City south on Frisco. As far as SCL power, I've seen that, even Southern Ry. diesels, on run-throughs on the Cherokee Subdivision in Afton. From what I remember, they were all 6-axle diesels.
Ed Bunch, long time Frisco off-line traffic agent in Tampa and Miami told me recently that he secured a lot of Florida bound freight traffic from the Pacific Northwest due to the Frisco´s Kansas City-Birmingham "short cut". ACL and SAL and of course SCL after the merger continued to receive lumber and perishables for final delivery in the Sunshine State. With the famous ACL Perry Cut-Off gone and freight movements being required to take a longer route to Tampa Bay destinations via CSX, what is the current time element with BNSF and UP as the major players competing with the trucks compared to the pre-merger operations? I assume BNSF has through routing from the Pacific Northwest to Birmingham where freight is handed over to CSX eliminating any transfer at Kansas City. Has the service improved for the customer assuming most of this traffic still moves by rail? Joe Toth
I have some slides shot in the 1973-74 timeframe that show the Green/Yellow SAL units, GP40s I think, running through KC by Seaboard Milling. Not sure if they were cut off when they arrived on the UP but they definitely made it to KC. Once. Maybe more. On my layout, I run SCL/SLSF/UP power mixed on the FSE/NWF. I've seen a few pictures of these consists and I kind of like them. Rule 1 is a fabulous tool.
Rick: The Frisco had power equalization agreements with the UP, ATSF, MP, and the SCL. All of these agreements were related to run thru trains with those roads. Each road designated an office to track locomotives and horsepower hours so at the end of the year if a road was in a deficit position it was required to provide equivalent horsepower hours. This is the reason you might find a Frisco loco anywhere on the Santa Fe. Same would apply to the UP, SCL, or MP. From my experience the SCL had the worst locomotive maintenance with the MOP next. Often the NWF, Way Cross, GA to Memphis, TN, run thru would arrive in Birmingham with one or two units dead in consist. If our shop people could not get it running, we would set out the unit(s) and substitute a Frisco unit. We took the bad order (B/O) unit to the LN yard in transfer service. At the years end we would receive a SCL piece of junk to balance the horsepower hours. Usually this required a minor overhaul in Springfield to get our equivalent horsepower hours owed back. Brandt May
Terry, C. Brant May is a Frisco retiree. He had been in the system for quite some time. I know that he was, at one time the River Division Superintendent.
Terry, He was indeed over there at one time. Worked all over the system. Currently tearing out a layout in order to attempt a Birmingham scheme. Can't get him to the Frisco weekends because of the OSU football games. Maybe you could come over to Northwest Arkansas and visit.
