John, That was very well said, and I agree, a society well educated and with a permanent address is definitely needed to Keep FRISCO Alive and Well. I would be honored if you could start this, you have to be the most educated man I know on the FRISCO and its operations, equipment, and knowledge in General, and I mean this sincerely. I think it would be fitting to have the location in Springfield, as that was the hub of all the FRISCO Operations, but, Pittsburg or even cherryvale would be just as good. Didnt you say at one time the old FRISCO Depot in Cherryvale was dismantled and was sitting in a warehouse somewhere? If I am right, maybe that would be a great place to start would be to see if Mr. Webb and the City of Cherryvale would allow the old depot to be rebuilt, and could house some of the equipment and artifacts in there. Sorta the way the old Cherryvale Depot used to be, with the lay out and the way they had it set up as a museum. Maybe change the location of the depot to somewhere away from the tracks so not to take on the possibility of a derailment crashing into the depot and losing artifacts. But this is just my 2 cents worth. I hope this comes to reality. I never knew much about the FRISCO until I met you guys, and the education I got is something I will always remember, and for that, I have the utmost respect and appreciation. I say go for it!
The Cherryvale Frisco Depot that was taken down piece by piece and moved to the Kansas City area was not stored in a Warehouse. The story I have been told is that it was stored in a field. The wood all rotted away and the used brick has supposedly been sold off. Bob Wintle Parsons, Ks.
I have been quite reluctant to jump in here, but after seeing Doug's post which I believe to be spot on, here I am. Some of you remember that there was a Historical Society that went defunct and left a bad taste in many peoples mouths. Any attempt to form a new one will in my opinion first take getting past that hurdle. I for one am happy with the forum we have and wish that somehow a Historical Society could be wrapped into this without damaging its structure. I also feel that in some regards we are way ahead of the curve with this organization and the ability to share information. Mike calls it the "Frisco Railroad Library" so in a sense isn't it already the "Library" part of a bigger entity like a Historical Society"? Food for Thought?
Another advantage to using a non-profit corporation would be IRS 501(c)(3) status. It would allow donors to deduct the fair market value of contributions (cash or items) on their Federal income tax forms. The IRS has been requesting more information from non-profits, even those with gross revenues under $25,000 per year, but the work should not be substantial in my experience
We havn't really had pyshics yet, It's not availble till I think Junior year. But one who gets bord with MSTS can figure it out easly, a small train going 10 mph wont go far off the tracks, on the other hand an Amtrak HHP-8 doing 180 by its self will go half way across the Potomic
But a train, none the less can do alot of Damage even at 5 miles an hour or less, just a derailment in general can tear up alot of real estate. I have seen it done many times.
Howdy folks, I'm back in town, so will devote some time to all your comments and post a few thoughts in summation. I successfully wrote a 501(c)(3) last year for the Texas Western, and think I could write another for the Frisco without any difficulty. That is the easy part. The hard part has been discussed in this thread. More later. I just got in and I am bushed from the 14 hour drive. Best, mike
One half the product of mass times velocity squared - it's the speed that defines how big the brake pads/shoes have to be. But for a train, mass is also pretty darned big. Ethan, it's called kinetic energy. There is also potential energy of a mass at rest. You'll enjoy your physics class.
I feel that as a group we should take steps to insure that Frisco.org will carry on in the case something should happen to "Friscomike". I am opposed to the idea of a "Society" just for the sake of having one or a newsletter. I believe that Frisco.org more than adequately takes care of our needs. I have not voted in the poll as of yet and may not. I just haven't heard any ideas one way or the other that appeal to me as of yet. I would really like to hear ideas on how to make sure Mike has a backup that can and will take over in his abscence. I have had my fill with "Societies" their rules and the politics that go with them. These are my thoughts and I do not mean to demeaner anyone elses. Bob Wintle Parsons, Ks.
Bob makes some very interesting points here and maybe we should explore with Mike a way to assure that this keeps going. Maybe he would be willing to share with some or all of us what exactly it takes financially to sustain it and what is actually involved besides maintaining a web site. Mike can correct me if I'm wrong here, but since he owns the site he can monitor content and delete threads if he so chooses. I know for a fact that he is a firm believer in the principle of free speech and to my knowledge has only deleted one thread that got out of hand. Bob's comment about "Societies" in the world of railroading has some merit worth considering. By the time an issue gets through the layers of politics it becomes so watered down that it becomes redundant. To me the real beauty of this group or forum, vs. something like a Yahoo Group is the principle of threads where someoe posts a question and those knowledgeable on the subject can jump in and post ideas and/or photos and maps. I would be hard pressed to find another railroad related forum with as much information as this one has. At this point in the discussion, the real issue to me is on a going forward basis how can we find that one person or persons to oversee the forum as objectively and diplomatically as Mike has without it becoming another "Society"? We are all quite fortunate we have Mike!
There is also the law of conservation of momentum. Momentum = mass times velocity. A big heavy train moving only at 5 MPH will knock a relatively light track-side structure moving at zero speed into a zillion pieces if it hits it. It will roll right through the building. Ethan - Physics is great. Same comment Doug had - I loved it. Between Physics, Chemistry and Math, you can explain almost anything. I took lots of math, plus chemistry and physics in high school, and that set me up well for chemical engineering degrees at both MSM (now Mo S&T) and Purdue. Physics 21 & 22, Norwood Hall, MSM, early 1960's - eh Doug? Ken
Would someone please apply that momentum theory to this Brian person who keeps bugging us with this Arkansas railroad in the middle of other threads. Thanks, Tony
I agree that it would be nice to ensure the resources now available, and those future, could be secured, but I will need to defer to those with much more first-hand experience as to "how". Quick reply to an observation in this thread: The worst derail I have experienced to date as an engineer was at 10 MPH. I was handling a loaded grain train about 1/2 mile long. Leaving a sag, I felt a very slight tug, almost as if a bit of slack had stretched. Upbraiding myself for not handling the air better, all was well as I pulled along in using throttle 3 and 4, which was typical for that section. Next thing I knew a terrific "crack the whip" effect and "BAM!!!": Into emergency the train went. There was a green Conductor aboard and first thing out of his mouth was "What was THAT???" I replied "We're on the ground, and it's bad." Though I couldn't see the end of the train, I didn't have to see it. Knew from the feel of it that this one was not going to be pretty. Walking back to the scene, I was appalled to find three loads on their side, slightly piled up, at least 10' or more from the tracks, grain spilled out... and another car half off still coupled to the remaining train. Hard part was calling the Trainmaster to tell him what had just happened. The investigation revealed: *According to the downloaded data from my engines, my the train handling was, according to the General Manager, "Excellent". (Whew. Still had a job.) * One side of the last truck of the last car had a sun kink (welded rail) shoot out from under it. The rail shot off to the side about 6'-8'. * The derailed side of the truck then overturned the rail, hopped it, and rode inside the web. (This was the slight tug I felt.) * Once riding the web on one side and still on the rail on the other, the car rolled meerily along, peeling the north rail like a can-opener. * Half mile later the derailed wheels trailed through a switch, snagged on the frog... and cracked the train like a whip and did a tremendous amount of damage. All that said: HAD there been a depot at the typical distance beside the track, the cars would have gotten into it easily. Odd business, this railroading. Andre Ming
Historical societies frequently maintain assets (rolling stock, buildings, land, documents). Their incorporation and tax-exempt status allows them to accumulate funds for asset acquisition and maintenance "in perpetuity." This would be an advantage of historical society incorporation over the present format. Documents (locomotive diagrams, logs, waybills, invoices, etc.) are primary sources for research that can lead to publications. There has been a wealth of these posted in the Frisco.org Library as scans at multiple degrees of resolution. However, I am concerned about the role these play. Obviously, someone can conduct extensive research within Frisco.org to find material to write something about the railroad. It raises two procedural questions: 1. Would citation of the name of the document as located on Frisco.org be acceptable to a committee reviewing the manuscript? 2. Must the would-be author instead see the actual hard copy before citation? I believe the current trend ("scholarship lite") accepts the first option. A serious scholar should prefer to do research from hard copies. At best, then, Frisco.org is a clearinghouse that gives the last-known location and custodian of the document. Are members willing to be contacted and allow in-person examination of their Frisco items by an author for research purposes? Posts in the thread bemoan the politics of organizations, but an advantage of going through the exercise of politics is the creation of a Board of Directors, By-laws and Policies that address questions like these. This can give the Frisco better exposure.
