I had this site bookmarked for another project, but today discovered some great Frisco photos: http://www.westernrailimages.com/Frisco-Railway-St-Louis-San
These are photos from the Jim Ozment collection, I believe. I also believe they are copyrighted, so be careful what you do with them. GS
Checking the "1950" series...the photo with the HWT parlor on the end of the Texas Special...is that the B&O sleeper coupled next or one of the PRR smoothsides? Rancho Bob
I believe that car is a PRR, but the sunset color kind of makes you guess. Lots of pictures of the Texas Special have the odd color sleepers, both PRR and B&O. That picture is worth the price of admission for the Katy lounge car. To see it in service before it was left to rust out. Tom
Tom Do you agree that shot #1 at Tower Grove is actually the Meteor, not the Texas Special? The first coach is a coach-dorm that only ran on 9-10. I'm surprised there was only that and one full coach on the train -- wonder where the coach-lounge was? Gordon
You're speaking of the Ozment Trackside book right? Agreed, I do think it's the Meteor because of the diner-observation (Galley vents). I also think that's the head end of the same train approaching on the facing page (pages 84-85). Tom Edit re my comment above: I wasn't looking at the Western Rail Images site, but it's the same train. The observation-diner is showing in the photo in the book. We're speaking of the same picture cropped or at least, the same roll of film.
That third car from the left is indeed a chair/dorm. Notice, also, the full skirt is still on the car while it has been removed from the others. What is confusing about this picture is that the sleeper is an ex TS sleeper as the road plate is clearly seen on each end of the upper fluting. The car has been relettered for FRISCO. I cannot read the name of the car, so if someone else can read it, it would be great to have it revealed. The coach also is a TS car, but I can't tell if it still carries the TS on the letterboard or has also been renamed for the FRISCO. In the book More Classic Trains all of the builder photos of the TS cars (Frisco and Katy) show the road name plate on the end of the upper flute, but none of the Frisco Meteor cars has one. The date of 1958 also adds to the confusion as the Frisco was still a partner with the Katy on the TS at this time, but obviously had already been relettering TS cars for the Frisco. If anyone has info about when the Frisco began pulling equiptment from the TS and relettering them for general Frisco use, that would also be helpful. Terry
The Meteor Pullmans did have the small road name plates at the ends of the cars. They weren't delivered that way, but had them added later. The Meteor Pullmans had "Pullman" on the plates and the Texas Special Pullmans had "Frisco" or "katy" on the plates. An oddity: when the Frisco re-lettered their Texas Special cars to the Meteor's Railroad Roman style lettering, they put "Frisco" in a smaller Railroad Roman style on all the former TS cars, but the Meteor Pullmans kept "Pullman" on their car end letter plates. Tom
Tom, I knew if anyone knew the relettering question, you did. Do you know the dates when the small name plates were added to the Meteor Pullmans? I have the Hallmark Meteor cars and, of course, they are models of the as delivered scheme. I am modeling the Meteor and the TS in the mid 50s and will add those plates if necessary. Was the Pullman name on the slant as they were on the TS cars, or were they a different font? Thanks for this info as it is helpful in being as accurate as possible. I am still trying to find info on the interiors of the Meteor cars to be even more accurate. Terry
I don't exactly know what the dates that the Meteor sleepers' (Rivers series) small roadname plates were added?? It seems to me that the plates were added shortly after they were delivered. For some reason those plates also looked slightly different (To me) than the Texas Special's cars?? In the David Randall "Pullman Library" Volume 15, page 102 there's builder's photo of car 1457, "Meramec River" and it doesn't have the plate. In the "Trackside Around St. Louis 1952-59 with Jim Ozment" book on page 85 (top), there's a picture of car 1463 (Canadian River) and car 1457 and they both have "Pullman" in smaller Railroad Roman lettering. The lettering on these cars was a vertical font slightly smaller than the "F-R-I-S-C-O" lettering in the large letterboard. That photo, mis-captioned as The Texas Special, is dated May 9, 1958. I can't recall any other Meteor sleeper photos at the moment, but as I remember, the only photo I've seen without those small nameplates is that builder's photo. I always thought it was odd that the Texas Special sleepers had "Frisco" (Or Katy) in the nameplates and the Meteor sleepers had "Pullman." There is some information (Photos) in the Randall book on the interiors of the cars. I think I've read about the interior colors someplace (??), but I don't recall at the moment. Maybe someone else can come up with some interior colors. Tom
Just from my observations and studying photos, I think the Frisco re-lettered their Texas Special cars about 1962-63. The Meteor and Kansas City-Florida Special had "The Texas Special" lettered cars for quite a while after the train was discontinued. Tom
Thanks, Tom, I appreciate the information. That explains the Pullman in the Walthers decals set 84-62. I always thought the second sheet in the Walthers Meteor decal sets were more generic than actually needed for the Meteor application. The lettering on this second sheet is actually more crisp than the Meteor specific page. Now, I have a little more decaling to do on the Meteor cars I have. Terry
Terry--Do you have or are you interested in the Hallmark Texas Special decals that came with their cars? They're frequently on eBay. FYI. Tom
Tom, I bought several sets because they are old and brittle. I was able to reletter some mistakenly decaled TS cars (Katy name with Frisco number-go figure), and I had one that had no lettering on it plus, I changed one from Katy to Frisco-of course. I did have to use several to get the job done, but I am pleased with the job. Terry
