Frisco GP35's - which Kato?

Discussion in 'Electo-Motive Division (EMD)' started by meteor910, Apr 13, 2006.

  1. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Need help. :confused:

    I'm in a dilemma - I can't find my GP35 notes! I have several Kato undecorated HO GP35's, their designation - Phase 1a, Phase 1b, and Phase 1c. My recollection is that the 1b is the closest for Frisco's GP35's. Am I correct?

    I know they need some detail work, but as I recall, the 1b has the correct door arrangement.

    Do the 1a and 1c Kato GP35's have any utility for a Frisco model?

    I seem to recall the 1a is correct for MoPac. That's why I bought them (2 - why???), but sold one shortly later to a MoPac nut. Have three 1b's, still the one 1a, and one 1c, all undec.

    Sure wish I could find those notes I made years ago when these models were released!

    Thanks.

    Ken |-|
     
  2. mark

    mark Member

    Ken,

    The Frisco owned 4 phases variations of EMD's GP-35 locomotive:

    700-716 - Phase Ia2.
    717-724 - Phase IIa.
    725-731 - Phase IIc.
    732 - Phase IIb.

    700-716 - Units featured roof mounted "torpedo tube" air tanks and large fuel tanks.
    725-731 - Units rode on Alco trucks recycled from trade in FA-1s. Swap model truck sideframes with Athearn "GE" sideframes.

    Looking forward to you posting photographs of completed models!

    Thanks!

    Mark
     
  3. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I'm going to pull up an old thread for a repeat discussion as I am still unsure of the correct answers. This is in regard to which of the three versions of the HO Kato GP35 are most correct for modelling the various Frisco GP35's.

    I have four of the Kato GP35's: one "phase 1a", two "phase 2a", and one "phase 1c" models. I did have a second "phase 1a", but painted it up as a blue "screaming eagle" MoP unit and sold it to a friend several years ago. It looked great and it ran sweet!

    Mark outlined the Frisco's various GP35 units in his posting of 4/14/06 above. But, I'm still unsure of which Kato goes with which Frisco GP35 as the phase designations are different. I'm not real familiar with the GP35 phase series. Was there ever an article in X2200S outlining a series of GP35 phases? X2200S was usually the definer of various EMD "phases", not EMD

    Once I understand the Kato nomenclature, I might "Frisco-ize" one or more of them, or I might sell them. Each of them is undecorated, mint in the box. I don't want to finish them, or sell them, until I know what I'm doing.

    Are there any GP35 experts out there who can set me straight?

    Thanks.

    Ken
     
  4. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Hi Ken,

    I can't help on which Kato is correct for HO scale, but you need to get a copy of the May/June 2000 issue of Diesel Era magazine if possible. This issue has an article on Frisco GP35s. It includes 1/87 scale drawings of the Torpedo Tube GP35s.

    Paul
     
  5. mark

    mark Member

    Ken,

    The major physical spotting differences the EMD GP-35 phases are outlined below:

    Phase Ia2 - Fishbelly frame side sill (frame drops down around fuel filler), Battery box doors have column groups of 3 louvers (2 columns of 3 on fireman's side, 3 columns of 3 on engineer's side), Short inertial air filter screens, Flat inertial air filter dust bin hatch on roof, Flat area under headlight casting on cab number board / headlight assembly, Type 1 radiators (prominent horizontal slats - see Cannon & Company detail part 1402), Total of 4 latches on the 8 engine compartment doors. Note: Variant 1 (Ia1) has a total of 12 latches on the 8 engine compartment doors*.

    Phase IIa - Straight frame side sill (slight upward notch above air tanks), Battery box doors have column groups of 1 louver, Long inertial air filter screens, Flat inertial air filter dust bin hatch on roof, Downward bulge under headlight casting on cab number board / headlight assembly, Type 2 radiators (wire screens - see Cannon & Company detail part 1404), Total of 12 latches on the eight engine compartment doors*.

    Phase IIb - Features of IIa except features a Raised inertial air filter dust bin hatch on roof.

    Phase IIc - Features of IIb except features Corrugated inertial air filter intakes.

    Notes for Frisco units:
    700-716 - Units featured roof mounted "torpedo tube" air tanks and large fuel tanks.
    725-731 - Units rode on Alco trucks recycled AAR Type B from trade in FA-1 units. Swap model truck sideframes with Athearn "GE" sideframes.

    * On the GP-35 the engine compartment is considered the two sets of 4 doors (8 total doors) over prime mover centered under the dynamic brake fan. When numbered from the front to rear on the fireman's side doors 1 & 2 are the main generator, doors 3-10 are the engine compartment, doors 11-15 are the oil filters, air compressor, etc. Each set of 4 engine compartment doors has either 2 (1 upper and 1 lower) latches (four total) or 6 (3 upper and 3 lower) latches (6 total).

    The magazines X2200 South and Prototype Modeler have each featured articles on GP-35 phases or spotting features. Prototype Modeler and Diesel Era magazines include scale drawings.

    Recommend you compare the locomotive shell in the scale of your choice produced by model manufacturers against the designated variations. Models of the EMD GP-35 have been produced in at least N, HO and O scales by Atlas, Athearn, Bachman, Kato and possibly others.

    Hope this helps.

    Thanks!

    Mark
     
  6. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Paul, Mark -

    Thanks to both of you for your very helpful responses. I have the Diesel Era issue featuring the Frisco GP35's - I'd forgotten about it. Thanks for reminding me. In fact, I have all the Diesel Era issues (my favorite RR magazine), but I have them filed away in a cabinet and I find it easy to forget what all is in them. I guess the thing to do is as Mark suggests - take the three Kato models and compare them against the pics in DE and elsewhere. I guess there is not an easier answer.

    I also have all the X2200S issues - I don't remember a GP35 article. Do you have any specific reference to that issue?

    I started a project several years ago, right after I retired from Monsanto, to index all the X2200S issues, but only got about half-way through. But, I've read them all and, as I said, don't recall the GP35 feature. But, I just turned 66 and I forget a lot!

    Ken
     
  7. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    Is there still an "Extra 2200 South" published any more? I once subscribed to it and here and there found single copies at hobby shops, but haven't heard anything about it in a long time. It was very irregular...

    Tom
     
  8. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Tom -

    Yes, Extra 2200 South still exists ..... published perhaps 2 or 3 times per year. Different publisher now, however. The Dover's sold it several years ago and, I believe, Don Dover has passed away.

    But, X2200S is a shell of its old self (in my opinion). Though each issue has a lot of very good color pics, and more pages, it is mainly focused on short lines with few features on the main line roads, and virtually no features on the specifics of various locomotive models. They do still show new locomotives, and who is buying them, but today's locomotives - though they are powerful, magnificent beasts, for some reason don't interest me much.

    They did do a huge feature a couple of years ago - over several issues - of a very detailed, locomotive by locomotive, ATSF Diesel roster. It was very well done and of interest if you are a Santa Fe fan.

    I still receive it - last issue was #131, but I often wonder why. I think I still subscribe because it does not cost that much, and it keeps me going on my collection as I have every X2200S issue. I really enjoyed the old features on specific locomotives, "phases", specific equipment details (horns), etc, and the frequent railroad rosters. No more.

    Plus, it was always exciting to receive the latest issue of X2200S and see what recent changes the Frisco made to their roster. Can't do that now either!

    Ken
     
  9. Sirfoldalot

    Sirfoldalot Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    Anyone out there have a photo of the roof of a "torpedo tube" GP-35?
     
  10. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I have a couple of diagrams that show the details. Contact me via PM.

    Ken
     
  11. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Here's one that I found.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Keith -

    In addition to the good view of the top piping on an early Frisco GP35, this pic shows a GREAT view of the five-chime Leslie horn, three forward, two to the rear.

    Ken
     
  13. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    So, has anyone determined what fits what?
     
  14. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Keith -

    Read up higher in this thread - there is some information on the phases for the Frisco GP35's posted.

    A problem is that the Kato phase designations and the common designations for GP35 phases differ a bit.

    I solved the problem by selling all my Kato GP35's on HOYardsale recently! (I had six of them, all undec). I still have the two Athearns.

    As background, here is the Frisco section of the GP35 roster summary published by David Thompson which designates the phases for the SLSF GP35's:

    EMD's GP35 - Original Owners
    by David Thompson
    Total units - 1250 US, 26 Canada, 57 Mexico

    Qty Road Numbers Date Builder's #s Phase Notes
    1 SLSF 700 3/64 28525 Ia2 torpedo tube
    16 SLSF 701-716 3-4/64 28912-28927 Ia2 torpedo tube
    8 SLSF 717-724 4-5/65 30056-30063 IIa
    7 SLSF 725-731 12/65 31120-31126 IIc Type B trucks
    1 SLSF 732 12/65 31127 IIb

    Ken
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 4, 2010

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