Meramec River Crossing - Bridge 18.2 - Valley Park, MO, MP 17.9 - Rolla Subdivision

Discussion in 'Bridges' started by pensive, Nov 19, 2006.

  1. pensive

    pensive Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Meramec River Crossing - Bridge 18.2 - Valley Park, MO, MP 17.9 - Rolla Subdivision

    The Saint Louis to Springfield line first crosses the Meramec River at Valley Park in it's southwesterly trek using 3 through truss spans.

    Again one can see the concrete piers built next to the cut stone ones.

    Photographs taken by Rich Lawler on October 20, 2006.

    Edit 2/2/2024: The steel portion of the bridge consists of three 153'-1 1/2" through riveted trusses (TRT) and one 33'-0" deck plate girder (DPG). Total steel portion of the bridge measured 392'-4 1/2".

    The Frisco crossed the Meramec River seven times in total. On the Rolla Subdivision it cross the river 4 times, on the Salem Branch 2 times and on the St. Louis Subdivision 1 time. Each crossing involves a substantial structure owing the the potential flood stage power of the Meramec.

    This is 1 of 4 bridges across the river on the Rolla Subdivision.

    Added bridge details information, number, mile post and subdivision.
    MKD
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2024
    Sirfoldalot and mountaincreekar like this.
  2. railroadguy65

    railroadguy65 Member

    Meramec River Crossing - Bridge 18.2 - Valley Park, MO, MP 17.9 - Rolla Subdivision

    A view from the air. :)

    Microsoft Live map view of Meramec River Bridge

    Click the links below. Be patient while loading, it will take you there.

    If you do not have Micorsoft Virtual Earth 3D loaded, it will ask you to do so.

    It should take you to the link, if not, re click on these link after you install it.

    http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v...584554371753&phscl=4.41570447353312&encType=1

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 31, 2024
  3. railroadguy65

    railroadguy65 Member

    Old Postcard - Frisco Bridge Valley Park, MO :)
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2024
  4. pathowe

    pathowe Member

    Was there ever side by side bridges there?

    I can see the bridge is to narrow for double track but it looks like at one time it may have had side by side bridges.

    Patrick
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2024
  5. railroadguy65

    railroadguy65 Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2024
  6. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    The pictures I have from June, 1984 of the Frisco Valley Park bridge over the Meramec River indicate that the existing bridge was never a dual track bridge.

    It is clearly wide enough for only one track.

    However, the existing bridge abutments and support piers also pictures from June, 1984 show that the abutments and bridge support piers extend quite a bit to the downstream side to the left while going west on the railroad, and are much wider than they ever would have been built to support the existing bridge.

    Thus, a question remains as to the possibility of the existing single track Valley Park bridge being a possible replacement for a previous double track bridge.

    The SLSF is essentially double tracked all the way out from St Louis until it reaches the single track Valley Park bridge, per the SLSF track chart.

    Does anybody have any SLSF bridge history?

    When was the existing Valley Park bridge built, and what was there before sitting on the existing abutments?

    Ken
     
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  7. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Frisco.org Supporter

    Do think a "new" bridge was built alongside of an older structure, later removed, that was still carrying the traffic?

    Tom
     
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  8. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Except that the bridge abutments are not wide enough to support two bridges.

    The existing support abutments are perhaps 1.33-1.5 times wider per my 1984 pictures than what would be required for the existing bridge alone.

    Ken
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2024
  9. railroadguy65

    railroadguy65 Member

    I do not think so if you closely at this angle you can see this bridge was built this way, and only one side was ever used, a common practice on bridges.

    http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v...362736258596&phscl=2.54097270554931&encType=1

    If they would have constructed a new bridge, I would think that they would have used more modern supports.

    And from the birds eye view, I do not see any changes in the approach to bridge.

    I believe we are dealing with the original structure.
     
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  10. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    This isn't the best shot in the world, but it does show the bridges at Valley Park back in the late 1040s when the Frisco was still double tracked to Pacific.

    The car in the background is just crossing the tracks on Marshall Road by the Frisco water tank and the depot is behind the engine.
     

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  11. railroadguy65

    railroadguy65 Member

    Hi Don :)

    When do you think they remove the other span?

    And did they do it for any particular reason?

    Paul
     
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  12. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Don's picture looks to me like two narrower, lighter, side-by-side truss spans were across the Meramec at Valley Park, allowing a through double track.

    I would speculate they were both replaced by a single track, heavier truss bridge that rests on the original abutments sometime in the late 1940's, requiring only a single track across the bridge.

    I repeat, I am speculating based on Don's picture and my pictures.

    Unfortunately, my 1984 pics are prints and I do not have a way to scan them so they can be posted.

    Ken
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2024
  13. railroadguy65

    railroadguy65 Member

    Hey Karl,

    Do you have any records of your dad's that would mention the spans being updated and or replaced?

    Could you check and let us know if Valley Park bridge was updated?

    Thanks, Paul
     
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  14. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    My 1982 Frisco (BN) track chart shows the line is double tracked through Valley Park until reaching the Marshall Road grade crossing.

    It then narrows down to single track across the Meramec bridge.

    Immediately on the other side, railroad west, of the river, the railroad expands again to double track.

    I am saying double track - really it is two tracks, a main and a secondary.

    The track chart does not identify when the existing Meramec River bridge at Valley Park was built.

    I hoped it would give us that detail.

    Ken
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2024
  15. railroadguy65

    railroadguy65 Member

    At the next the crossing of the Meramec north of Eureka, MO we run into the same situation, down to one line across the bridge. :)

    If and when this bridge was a doubled tracked, there had to be a reason to reduce it to one.

    See link below to Microsoft Live Maps - you may need to down load the software to view this link.

    http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v...695960676366&phscl=2.21309470960564&encType=1

    From an engineering perspective it could be due to the age of the bridge supports and weight of modern trains.

    That would explain why it would be best that only one train cross at a time.
     
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  16. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    The Frisco crosses the Meramec River four (corrected) times between Valley Park and St Clair if I'm counting correctly.

    They are all single track bridges on the track chart I have dated 1982.

    Don't know how many of the other four were something else once, like the Valley Park bridge apparently was.

    Eeek!

    Now that I actually looked at the track chart, I think I counted the Meramec crossings wrong.

    For the record, the four SLSF Eastern Division Meramec River crossings I see on the track chart between Valley Park and St Clair, all single track, are:

    Valley Park, MP 18.2
    Eureka, MP 25.6
    Catawissa, MP 36.6
    Rook, MP 45.3

    Ken
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2024
  17. railroadguy65

    railroadguy65 Member

    Your guess is as good as mine why in 82' the were all single track bridges.

    As I mentioned before, it could be the weight issue on the existing stone supports.

    If anyone worked for the Frisco in 1960-1970s around St. Louis maybe they would know what happened to the second roadbeds?
     
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  18. WindsorSpring

    WindsorSpring Member

    Meteor910 noted: "The track chart does not identify when the existing Meramec River bridge at Valley Park was built. I hoped it would give us that detail."

    I just paid a visit to the bridge and the attached photos are the result. The left bank, north, abutment had a date on it of 1923. Cracks make it look like 1928!

    There is also interest in the proportions of the piers relative to the span.

    "Eyeballing" the pier picture shows there is room for a tight fit of a duplicate span on the left downstream side. There is a big concrete block there as well just like the one centered under the current truss.

    The only difference appears to be that the right upstream side of the pier holding the load is covered in concrete while the downstream side is not.

    I did take a picture that included the other pier, but that one did not give a clear view of the surface treatment.

    Lighting was great under the sunny sky.

    There is a paved trail, part of the "Meramec Greenway", that passes under MO 141 and the BNSF and goes along the river.

    This makes access to these views convenient and legal!

    I got to it by going through the parking lot of the strip mall on the Southwest corner of Forest Ave/Vance Road and MO 141, but it looks like there is another access directly across from Marshall Road.

    George
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2024
  19. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Neat field research my friend! Thanks.

    FYI, I took my promised donations down to the Kirkwood Historical Society today.

    Ken
     
  20. railroadguy65

    railroadguy65 Member

    George great job and great information! :)

    Sometimes it is just best to go directly to site and take a look for yourself, that is what I like to do.

    Take care, Paul
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2024

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