Frisco 4-6-2 #1023

Discussion in '4-6-2 Pacific' started by Dennis Hogan, Jan 24, 2025.

  1. Dennis Hogan

    Dennis Hogan Member

    Need the following information:
    1) last shopping
    2) retirement date
    3) scrap date
    4) specs (driver size, cylinder size, max. pressure, length, coal or oil?, etc)

    Oh yes, where it typically operated.
     
  2. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Not sure if anyone here has last shopping dates for any steam power. There might be disposition data within the 4-6-2 thread or the General Steam section.

    Diagrams might be squirreled away somewhere in the Steam Locomotive Diagrams section, and in terms of operational area, a while ago I put together some Steam Locomotive Assignment data from the old Frisco Employee Magazines; however, it's organized by PDF and by division. I want to find where I put my original Excel file, which had worksheets for each division, and upload it if they site will support it, as it will make it infinitely easier to search for specific locomotives.
     
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  3. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    Lloyd Stagner had a paperback book about the last of steam on the Frisco. I have it somewhere and he gave retirement dates for a lot of locos.
    I think it was Steam Finale. He did another one or two on other roads.
    As far as shopping dates, unless you have access to years of RFE or whatever they call them that list expenditures I think you're SOL.
    These 1015-1039 class spent a lot of time on the River Division. I think some of them worked in OK as I recall Preston George photos.
    Maybe Karl could help.
    Good luck.
     
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  4. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    Here are a couple of nice Preston George view of 1023 from 1946.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    I have something in the works.
     
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  6. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    Trying to upload a photo and the file is too large. I've reduced it three times and still get the error.
    What are the limits on JPG?
    This site can be a PIA and sometimes like trying to Baptize a cat.
     
  7. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    Limit is supposed to be 8.3mb. Might need to bug Charlie again, I've been getting an error on another thread for 2 weeks now.
     
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  8. gjslsffan

    gjslsffan Staff Member Staff Member

    I have reported this, and left Charlie and others messages. Frisco.org is tied closely to TrainBoard, in that they both use much of the same software, which is way out of date and is to capacity. I think the powers that be, are trying to go to another server, no idea where we are at in that process. It very frustrating. but I trust things will improve, just dont know when.
    I have had the same error messages, no matter how small I make the images, kinda pointless to post an image so blurry and small.
     
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  9. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    I'm laughing. Going to have to add baptize a cat to my vernacular. 8^)
     
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  10. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Steam-related documents such as inspection reports, erection drawings, et al are extremely rare. At the end of 1946, the road had 527 steam locomotives; a mere footnote in the Annual Report records the existence of 48 diesel switch engines. Perhaps this is indicative of corporate thought, i.e., diesels would not go past the yard limit signs, and steam would still hold sway on the main. Indeed, the October 1946 plans for Springfield's new West Yards included a 44-stall roundhouse and 110-foot turntable seemly hinted to new and bigger steam power for the Frisco. However, January 1, 1947 the Frisco left receivership with a fresh set of books and a new president Clark Hungerford, who announced the company's plan to dieselize. By February 29, 1952, the Frisco completed its project. With the US engaged in the Korean War, the Frisco retained eleven 1500's, twenty 4200's, and twenty five 4500's should traffic require additional motive power.

    I mention this because with a fresh set of books, and the swift demise of steam, the Frisco truly cleaned house, and my father said that the railroad trashed mountains of drawings, records, reports from the 1916-1946 era Frisco. The Frisco would not look back.

    As Don noted, Stagner's "Frisco Finale" offers retirement dates for some of the locomotives as well as a couple of tables that list power distribution and status during the transition era. I also have some retirement dates that I took the former Frisco Museum. I don't know what primary source the museum used. Some of Stagger's date are at odds with the Frisco Annual Reports. That may have to do with the nomemclature used, e.g., set aside, retired, scrapped, etc.

    Screenshot 2025-01-26 at 10.54.36 AM.png


    The Frisco rostered four classes of Pacific type locomotives with each ensuing class taking over mainline passenger operations from the preceding class. With the arrival of the 1500's during 1923, 1925, and 1926, the Frisco relegated the Pacifics to local passenger trains and passenger trains on branch lines. During the late '20's and early '30's, the Frisco converted twenty two of the 1015-class engines to burn oil, and it converted the valve gear five engines to Walshaerts. The Frisco, raised the anemic 175 psi boiler pressure to 200 psi on fourteen locomotives, and it decrease the cylinder diameter by two inches on those same engine. The BP and cylinder changes decreased tractive effort from 40,800lbs to 39,735lbs. Factor of adhesion improved slightly, 3.56 to 3.66; the engines were still on slippery side. Late '30's changes include larger driver tires, which increase driver diameter to 73 inches to the streamlined/stream-styled and the 1025.

    1015_1039_diagrams_coal_oil_half_size.jpg
    As received diagram and diagram that reflects the switch to bunker "C" oil for fuel. The 1018, 1026, and 1031 received second-hand tenders, which carried 10,000 gallons of water, and 3800 gallons of oil. The 1025, 1034, and 1036 tenders had the same capacity. The 1029 tender carried 8100 gallons of water and 3800 gallons of oil; the 1039 tender carried 3700 gallons of oil, 8600 gallons of water.

    diagram_1015_1039_transition copy.jpeg
    During the war years, the Frisco added a larger sand dome, a Ragonnet Type E power reverse, a Nichols thermic syphon, and a cross-compound compressor to engines of the class.


    Screenshot 2025-01-25 at 6.45.25 PM.png
    These numerical data are from the Frisco Annual Reports. The four classes of the Ten-Hundred series remained largely intact through the war years. As the older 4-6-0's left the roster, and as larger power took over passenger train assignments , the Frisco placed the 1015-class locomotives in local freight service. Such engines received dog houses and footboard pilots





    frisco_1023_george_schick_april_1936_lindenewood_oklahoma_historical_society.jpg
    George Schick photo, Preston George Collection, Oklahoma Historical Society. The April 1936 photo captured the 1023 at Lindenwood. The Little Ten-Hundred gleams in the afternoon sun, and later that evening, she will probably power number 805 to Memphis. The locomotive bears the Frisco's 1930's look, i.e., full-window treatment, service step on the valve gear hanger, and the small sand dome. The locomotive has been converted to oil, and the Walshaert valve gear has replaced the original Baker valve gear. The twin 9-1/2 inch Westinghouse air compressors remain.




    4-6-2-1023-date-and-location-unknown.jpg
    Frisco Archive: date, place and photographer unknown.
    In this image, the 1023 retains her passenger livery, but it's obvious that she's in freight service. Note the new dome, the doghouse, the larger air compressor,

    4-6-2-1023-at-Springfield-Missouri-on-July-9-1948-Arthur-B.-Johnson.jpg
    Frisco Archive: Frisco 1023 at Springfield, Missouri on July 9, 1948 Arthur B. Johnson
    Art took this shot in the Frisco's North Springfield Yard. The 1023 has been set aside, and it rests ahead of a 4500. Note the power reverse and the heart-shaped "builders" plate of the Locomotive Firebox Company, which manufactured the syphon for the locomotive. Thanks to Clark Hungerford, the Doric fretwork became a thing of the past. I think that the 1023 left the roster during 1950.

    Don has a picture of the 1023 on train 409 in his book Frisco Steam Salute, page 9.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2025
  11. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter


    Beside a file size limit, i.e., 8 megs, there is also a dimensional limit of 2000 pixels per side.
     
  12. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    The footboard pilot doesn't do her any favors appearance wise.
     
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  13. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    Ed Heiss once told me that Millard Smart did a lot of dumpster diving and scored a lot of drawings. He was a hoarder and a character and I often wondered where all of that went. I met him, but never went to his house which I understand had walkways through it and a vertical mill in the kitchen.
    There are drawings floating around, but not many. Shame. 1023 St Louis MO 10-23-38 RF 600.jpg 1023 St Louis MO 10-23-38 RF 600.jpg
     
  14. Dennis Hogan

    Dennis Hogan Member

    Thanks to all for a tsunami-level response to my questions!
     
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  15. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    I'd never noticed that 1023 has rather peculiar valve gear hangers - looks homebuilt, perhaps? I remember a picture of one (or maybe it was a 1500-class) that is sporting a homemade valve gear hanger on the engineer's side after an accident in "Frisco Power."

    I'm going to have to go back through pictures of all of the Pacifics and take a closer look at those.

    Superb summary, as per usual, Karl. Thanks very much for sharing.
     
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  16. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    Hijacking the thread for just a minute, this is why I love this forum so much. Most questions are met with an avalanche of info like this one. I haven't found a source like this for any other railroad to this point.

    Ok, continue on with 1023 information
     
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