E8B question

Discussion in 'E8A' started by FRISCO4503, Sep 12, 2012.

  1. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    While it is true that the express cars may have been equipped with a stove for the occupants, the passenger carrying cars that followed the express cars were not equipped to generate thier own heat ( or AC as I understand it... ). The express cars included steam lines so the steam could be passed to the passenger carrying cars.

    Some railroads even equipped TOFC equipment with steam lines so they could be paced on the head end. On the frisco, you would sometimes see SAL Flexi-Van cars on the head end of the sunnyland.

    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 14, 2012
  2. Oldguy

    Oldguy Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Thanks paul for the explanation. So in this case, the GP7 had the SG, and the steam line ran through the E-8, through the express cars, and then on to the passenger cars?

    I never realized that the head-end express cars would actually have anyone riding in them. Guards perhaps?
  3. WindsorSpring

    WindsorSpring Member

    In the case of the E 8A - GP-7/SG - E 8A consist, it is conceivable all three steam generators would be on-line to meet the demands of the longer train. In the case of an E 8A - F 7B/no SG - E8A, again, both E 8 steam generators would be working but the f 7B/no SG would at least have had a steam pipe so steam from the lead locomotive could pass back through the consist.

    I am anxious to learn if this is correct. Was it Frisco practice to bring all available steam generators on-line?
  4. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Messengers or baggage handlers. Not all would be occupied however.

  5. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    As I understand it, at least some of the Frisco's steam generator equipped GP7s only had steam connections on one end ( and I think it was the long hood end ), so in the photo Karl linked to, it is possible only the GP7 and rear E unit had their steam generators in operation.

    Only some of Frisco's Freight B units had steam lines, so you can't say both E units would have had their steam generators connected to the train in all cases.

    As I understand it, most of the steam line equipped freight B units were intended to be used alongside the FP7s for trains on secondary routes.

    I believe this was determined by demands on the particular train, including weather conditions.

    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2012
  6. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    In looking through the locomotive diagrams from 1957, the following EMD B-units had through steam pipes for use with passenger locomotives (E7, E8, FP7 and some GP7):

    F3B SLSF 5117
    F7B SLSF 5126-5134

    I had thought some of the F9B's were equipped with steam pipes as well, but that does not appear to be the case.

    None of the Alco FA's or FB's carried steam piping or steam generators. (Though in warm weather, every once in a while, an Alco cab unit found itself pulling a passenger train, usually an extra of some sort or a trooper).

  7. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    There's a photo (I believe it's one of Mike Condren's) of a Frisco troop extra around Fort Smith with a four unit lashup of FA + GP-7 + GP-7 + FA + steam generator car. The SG cars were always available if needed. Around 1960, one or both of them could be found parked at the Springfield depot.

    Tom G.
  8. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    And remember the terrific two-part article by Larry Thomas titled "Ozark Pacers" in the November & December, 1984 issues of Passenger Train Journal. In the first article, Larry had a three-picture section called "Off-beat motive power". Included were:

    o Alco FA1 SLSF 5205 pulling The Sunnyland out of KC, train 107, after its normal E8 failed to pass a test in 1963 (Art Riordan pic)
    o Baldwin VO-1000 SLSF 222 pulling the Ft Smith section of The Meteor in August, 1962, another last-minute substitution (Mike Condren pic)
    o GP7 SLSF 535 leading a backwards running sick E7 (SLSF 2004) on train 710 at Ft Smith (Lou Marre pic).

    Anything can happen!

    Regarding my comment in my posting above that F3B SLSF 5117 had steam pipes, I don't believe those were on it as delivered, but were added later. I'm wondering if that was an experiment to see if a B-unit would be of help if the E's needed extra power, perhaps before the F7B's with pipes were ordered. just a guess.

  9. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    That contradicts data found in some timetables. See:


    ( plus the photo in one of the last posts in the thread showing an F9B between two FP7s.

  10. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Yep, Paul (and others) is correct. I take back my statement posted above - Frisco F9B's SLSF 5145-5152 were indeed good for freight or passenger, and had steam pipes.

    I based my wrong conclusion on my 1957 Frisco loco diagrams, which do not show any F9B's with steam pipes. But, later ones do. I wonder if the first (1957) diagram was incorrect, or if the SLSF added the piping later.

  11. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I am assuming that with a F9B in a Frisco passenger consist, when the train goes down a hill, the dynamic braking on the F9B would not be functional, since the E7's, E8's, GP7's and FP7's had no contriols to accuate the d/b.

    Anybody know for sure if this is correct?

  12. wmrx

    wmrx MP Trainmaster


    You are correct. If the lead unit is not equipped with dynamic brakes, there is no way to operate and control any of the trailing units that might be d/b equipped.

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