The thought that I had posted this before, but apparently it was lost during one of the site up-grades. In Harrisonville, remnants of the KCCS and MKT were still extant and served as industrial tracks when, I took this shot, circa 1970, of the crossing between the MP and the former Leaky Roof. Many years ago MR had an article about this former KCCS track, and how it was used as an industrial lead. The view here is to the northeast. The MP's line between Pleasant Hill and Carthage runs from the lower left to the upper right of the image, and the former KCCS mainline runs from the lower right of the image, and then curves into the background, where it connects with the Clinton Sub Mainline. The crossing was electrically locked. Trainmen were required to open the cabinet (at the right) and wind the timer. When the timer ran down, the lock would release, and the gate could be opened.
The old Leaky Roof has been a favorite of mine for many years. In 1977 when I was 13 I was sick with the flu my grandmother gave me some books to read while I was bed-ridden, one of which was small book called "The History of Missouri" which included a 1904 railroad map. I knew about the Hi-Line but what was this 2nd line that paralleled it? Thus began a 30-year quest to document the line. I was fortunate enough to have a library within walking distance and spent hours pouring over books dealing with history of the counties it went thru. Stagner's book "Steam Locomotives of the Frisco Line" had just come out mentioning the line which gave me a outline of where to begin. Over the next 5 years I began to look for the line on the many trips my family made between Kansas City & Thayer and began to notice it especially between Harrisonville & Creighton along HWY 7, which featured stone culverts and bridge abutments which I later learned were built with stone supplied by the Phenix quarry. There was even a concrete culvert with 1929 stamped on the top in a field and many wood bridge piling sticking out of creek beds. By 1983 I acquired enough plat maps to get an idea of where it ran not to mention I finally had car to get to some these locations. Remember this was way back before the internet, terra server & google earth were even thought of. Much of what I found in the 1st 20 years outside of the plat maps was old-school boots-on-the ground & in the bushes searching of the old roadbed. My 1st success in finding the old roadbed in the bush happened in July 1983 when I located the Blue River Bridge just east of Kenneth, KS. I was driving across the old bridge when I glimpsed it out the corner of my eye, I quickly learned that the best time to look for the old roadbed was in late winter when the trees were bare, a little snow made it better. Back then finances were tight, gas & film not to mention developing cost money so I took photos sparingly. I really didn't document the Hi-Line like I should have because at the time I thought the Hi-Line would be around forever, right? So I concentrated on the Leaky Roof which leads to the photos posted below. On a Sunday in March 1985 I had some spare time so I drove to Harrisonville with my plat maps to check it out. What I found was a large part of the old KCC&S still in service to the north & south of the MP crossing. I parked by the cemetery and walked to the north end of the line which ended in a lumber yard at Independence St. and back taking a few photos along the way. At the time I worked for the cable company and when I returned to my car I remembered I had my pole-climbing gear in the trunk. I had 2 frames left in my camera and I wondered what were the chances I could get up high enough for a bird's-eye view. So I grabbed my gear, found a pole that I could get a decent shot, climbed up as far as I could and took two photos in each direction. After that I was out of film so I headed home promising to get back for photos of the Hi-Line crossing and the KCC&S south of the MP crossing when time & money permitted. What I didn't know was that in 1988 I would leave KC for Seattle to work for the BN as a brakeman and my next return to Harrisonville would be 1993 while on vacation. BN abandoned the line 3 years after these photos were taken and the salvage crews took the tracks up around Dec 7-8, 1990. How do I know this? I happened to be driving north on HWY 71 on vacation at the time and was returning from a visit to my grandparents in Thayer on my way to the airport for a flight back to Seattle. While crossing over the Hi-Line west of Harrisonville I looked down the tracks to the east and saw the crew tearing up the rails. Though I have photographed most of Hi-Line & KCC&S, very year I try to follow the line to see if there is anything new. In 1997 I returned to KC as an engineer and in Jan.2003 I took a position in the BLE, advancing to local chairman in August 2006. Since taking the union job I don't have a lot of time spare what with the BLE, trying to make a trip or two to Ft.Scott and taking care of business at home. That's why I don't post much anymore, just don't have the time. This year it is the West Belton Hill, there is new housing construction in the area that is opening up access. I checked it out last month and I'm just waiting for the leaves to drop. I did take some photos though, just in case..... Roger
I love those shots from the pole Roger. After seeing those, I know I'm at least getting the right feel on the modules I"m building, even if what I'm doing isn't an exact match for the prototype location. Thanks! Paul
This is another great example for not freelancing a track plan - the prototype is much more interesting. Doug
This discussion of the Highline and KCC&S crossing gates is significant to me since my mother’s family is from Harrisonville. As a kid I remember driving under three overhead railroad bridges (MOP, SLSF, MKT) on 7 Hiway. On Memorial Day we would visit my grandparent’s graves by crossing the old KCC&S main to reach the cemetery. The first 9 years of my life was spent on a farm located south of Latour (Highline) and north of Creighton (KCC&S). My first memory of a moving train was the Frisco local on the Highline while riding the school bus. My interest in the KCC&S was spurred by my father’s story of riding it as a kid going to Scout camp in Osceola back in the early 1920’s. He would tell the story while we drove highway 7 from Creighton to Garden City and then to Harrisonville. That was over 40 years ago and I believe I saw that same concrete culvert that RogerRT wrote about. The Highline, KCC&S, MOP and MKT were the first railroads to interest me and continue to do so today. With the internet, I can trace the route the KCC&S and exchange info never available to me before. A special thanks to all whole have provided this. Jim
Here are the plat maps of Harrisonville I used, I don't know what year they represent. Notice the Katy line is named Missouri Pacific, I guess this is when MoPac controlled the Katy so that should narrow down the time frame. Another thing I noticed there is no interlocking tower, with such a complex maze of tracks from 4 railroads you would think there would be one. Roger
Wow, I never suspected a wye between the MKT and MOP. If the Mopac controlled the Katy, that's news to me, I suspect an error with the draftsman. In my searching, I have found no reference to a tower of any sort. I know there were two mechanical interlockers in Clinton where the two lines cross the MKT. Perhaps there was enough switching that switch tenders were justified. Yard limits normally don't require tower operators. jim
I was lucky I didn't slide off that pole, it was all rotten & splintered. Funny that pole wasn't my 1st choice, the other one had a thorn bush all the way around it's base, I couldn't get a stab at it. RRT
The Mop controled the MKT circa 1880-1888. When Gould lost control in 1888 in the Great Railroad Depression, the Mopac lost access to its own passenger car shop built next to the MKT yard at Fort Scott. They had to build a railroad and get crossing rights with the MKT, which put up quite a fight.
True, it could have been a stop & proceed junction, kinda like a 4-way stop. When I was out in Washington State that was how the junction between the BN & Chehalis Western worked on the South Bend branch. The one person who might know is Mike Goode, he has the Clinton, MO. website that is loaded with lots of good stuff about the Leaky Roof & Hi-Line http://tacnet.missouri.org/history/railroads/index.htm A couple of years ago when I was scanning my photos to CD's I asked him if there was ever a tower or gate at Lowry City Jct. which he replied not that he knew of so I am assuming Lowry City Jct., was a "stop & proceed" junction. Harlan & Tracy Jct. both had stations staffed by operators instead of towers. There was a interlocking tower at Kenneth/Mastin, KS. until the 1928 abandonment but I have not found any evidence of a tower in Olathe over both Frisco or Santa Fe. Roger
KCCS ETT No 27, June 12, 1910 states that the normal position of the gate at the MP crossing at Harrisonville is against the KCCS. It also states that a gate protects the ATSF crossing at West Olathe, and its normal position is against the KCCS. No mention is made in the ETT regarding the crossings with the SLSF at Olathe, Belton, Harrisonville, or Lowry City Jct., and no mention is made about the MKT crossing in Harrisonville. I also have the tax valuation maps and I can see no evidence of interlocking structures at Olathe, Belton, or Harrisonville. It may be safe to assume that these were stop and proceed crossings. Based on the ETT, I don't believe that there was ever a station at Harlan Jct or Tracy Jct. This section of the KCCS-Frisco lines was the first to be abandoned, circa 1904-1906. I'll have to look through my notes further, and flange up a date. The Frisco did not pass through Vista, so a connection from the Frisco to the Leaky Roof was built at Harlan and Tracy, and the Frisco track was abandoned. According to the ETT, this section was operated as a manual block. Trains were required to come to a stop, call the agent at Vista in order to receive clearance. After a train had traversed the joint track, and it was in the clear, the conductor was required to call the agent at Vista, and relinquish his clearance.
Well Karl, I hate to disagree with you but there were stations at Harlan & Tracy Jct. If you will notice the 1895 map of the area posted it clearly shows a depot on the KCO&S line at Harlan Jct., also a 1/1923 PTT I have lists the two as flag stops on the KCO&S but not on the KCC&S. I don't have a map showing the Tracy depot but there is a book at the Mid-Continent Library at Independence on the history of St.Clair County which quotes "A former operator at Tracy Junction, MO. during the heyday of the two railroads reported the clearance of 32 trains between the two lines at that point one busy day." The title of the book escapes me but I can get it if you would like to take a look. About the manual block in the ETT, this might surprise some but in the 19 years I have worked in TY&E for BN & BNSF the Carriers have never been able to publish a correct timetable. There has always been a General Notice issued with corrections the day the TT goes into effect, so you can never take a ETT at its face value. I would have to see the actual rule and how it was written to be sure. Though the actual term "manual block" no longer exists, its basis has evolved into the CTC/DTC control system in effect on the major railroads today. A version of it is now known as Rule 6.15 Block Register Territory, it is kept on the rulebooks in case of a major signal disruption. In 1999 I was briefed on it in case the signal system crashed on 1-1-01, which of course, never happened. Also as a local chairman for the BLET I am familiar with various arbitration awards, one particular which allowed a conductor or engineer an additional day's pay for copying train orders. So for 1 train to pass thru the manual block would cost the railroad an additional 2 day's pay. It would not take long for the railroad to realize it was cheaper to staff Harlan & Tracy Jct. with an operator. All of this evidence leads me to believe that both Harlan & Tracy Jct.'s were open train order stations. It probably was not much more than a little shack with the basics, but a station none-the-less. For some reason I can't load the 1923 PTT, when I get more time I'll try to re-scan it. Roger
All of this is great modeling fodder! While for a separate thread, the River Division was chock full o ' crossings where the Frisco either crosed SSW/MoPac tracks or the Frisco crossed itself - many of them gate-protected. Timetable details always help, but all of the aforementioned operational descriptions really help those of us lacking in the practical experience department. Thanks to all for the details; I'll sit back, read and imbibe in the knowledge...but after we get back from Kansas City and the MU-KU game tonight.
Roger, Hope that you had a good holiday weekend. Spent the weekend to Colorado Springs to see my son off for his second tour to Iraq with the 4th ID. There are several items, that don't make sense to me. Give me some time to put some things together. I believe that the plat that that you've attached "might" be the Frisco's Vista station. The crossing shown in the plat was a grade separation, and the Leaky Roof crossed the Frisco on a bridge. I believe that Harlan was located in Sec 33, T38N, R25W, and Harlan Junction was named for the maiden name of E.W. Tracy I 've been looking through some on-line Gazeteers, and I've been unable to locate anything with regard to Harlan or Tracy that exists before 1911. I am still looking. Way to go Mizzou!
Karl, Sorry it has taken so long to reply, Monday morning the crew desk cut the Frisco pool & extra boards and tried to force-assigned the wrong engineers to the Santa Fe & Q. What a mess! Anyway, good luck to your son on his tour of duty, it takes a heck of a person to do something others won't. Kinda like a local chairman (lol). Now to Harlan Jct., I believe you could be correct in Harlan Jct. being Frisco's "Vista". Of all the TT's I have seen Harlan Jct. is not mentioned on the KCC&S, only Frisco. Usually when railroads intersect the last to arrive pays for the signaling cost which means Frisco (guest) would have to supply the personnel & equipment to operate over the KCC&S (host). Another thing is one of the names Vista would have to eliminated after the 1904 trackage rights went into effect to avoid duplicate locations, keeping both Vista's would be a recipe for disaster when running on dark territory using train orders where named locations is essential. Looking at Terra server http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=12&Z=15&X=550&Y=5257&W=3&qs=|vista|mo| you can see the layout of Harlan Jct. and the Frisco bridge crossing over the KCC&S. As you can see the Frisco came in from the north on the left & KCC&S from the northeast on the right and briefly paralleled each other but never crossed at grade. In 1904 the Frisco began using a connection to enter the KCC&S at the point where the 2 lines were closest together and abandoned the line south of there to an unnamed point on the Frisco line just east of Tracy Jct. At the same time Frisco constructed a line from the unnamed point west to Tracy Jct. Looking at the terraserver map it almost looks like an interchange track was upgraded to mainline service though I have never found any evidence of an interchange point, probably because I was always looking for Harlan Jct. instead of Frisco's Vista. It would be a logical place for Frisco to setout cars destined for Vista and points south on the KCC&S before the trackage rights agreement was implemented. Come to think of it, it would be the only place to interchange south of Harrisonville at that time. I have never been able to get back up there, all of the land surrounding Harlan Jct. is private property with No Trespassing signs, but Mike Good told me that the Frisco bridge was quite an impressive structure. Attached is an e-mail between Mike Good and I regarding the confusing nature of the line between Lowry City Jct. and Harlan Jct. Though it mostly pertains to Lowry City Jct., at the bottom there is mention of the Frisco bridge south of Harlan Jct. He also acknowledges the valuation maps you gave him. Maybe this will clear up some the confusion. Roger
Thanks to everyone here for providing information on this remnant of the old KCCS. I'm currently building a bookshelf micro layout based on this siding, using the aforementioned Model Railroader article ("A Prototype Siding You Can Model," Paul Dolkos, July 1979) and the 1960s-vintage field notes provided by Karl on another Harrisonville thread here at frisco.org. Dolkos also revisited Harrisonville in MR's Model Railroad Planning 2008 in his "Branchline in a Bedroom" article, based on the Clinton Sub, which features a Frisco track chart of Harrisonville and its industries. Yesterday, armed with the above and a cheap disposable camera, I drove down to Harrisonville from my KC home for a little field research. While the siding and most of the industries it served are long gone, I did find the following: 1) Part of the old Frisco mainline and the MP interchange track are now being used as an industrial spur by whatever railroad (UP? Missouri and Northern Arkansas?) is operating on the old MP Carthage Sub. I saw a string of covered hoppers parked on the old, crumbling Frisco concrete overpass over Old US 71 (Commercial Street). Just east of the overpass the track is being used for salt and perhaps gravel unloading (accessible through Harrisonville's industrial park); to the west the line appears to be used to reach a grain elevator. Beyond the Frisco overpass the old MP line crosses Old US 71 on a newer deck girder span laid on the original abutments; a third, empty set of abutments flanking the road between the two overpasses mark the former MKT line. 2) The cemetery marked on the field notes taken by Karl's father in the '60s has, so far as I can tell, spread across and over the old KCCS roadbed since the siding was abandoned, obliterating all traces of it. Just past the overpasses and cemetery, hard up against Old 71 and the creekbed, I found a one-story cinderblock building with a basement garage. It matches a structure described by Paul Dolkos in the 1979 MR article as being part of the batch concrete plant. That building is now part of a complex called "Old Mill Stores" or some such. No trace remains of the trestle over the creek, which both Karl's father and Dolkos noted was used for unloading sand hoppers for the concrete plant. 3) Just past the creekbed, between it and Wall Street, the siding passed between the two storage sheds of what Dolkos called "Burge Brothers Feeds" in the 1979 article. Both buildings are still there, looking somewhat as they did in the photograph Dolkos included of them in his article, although the larger of the two metal sheds has long since been remodeled and now houses a beauty salon. The smaller shed, still equipped with an elevated concrete boxcar unloading dock, is being used for a flagpole business. When the tracks were still there, a switch located between the Burge Brothers buildings split the old KCCS line into two parallel, widely spaced sidings. 3) Between Mechanic and Washington streets one of MFA's warehouse buildings still stands, empty and vacant; MFA relocated to a site just off the former MP line some years ago, apparently. Everything else along the route of the former siding - another MFA warehouse, MFA's elevator, the old Armstrong elevator depicted in Dolkos' article and the Skelly and DX bulk oil dealers - have been razed, leaving behind empty lots. I'd hoped to at least find the oil tanks still there (they still stood when I briefly lived in the Harrisonville area in the late 1990s, abandoned with brush and shrubbery growing up around the tanks and through the piping), but they appear to have been removed in the last couple of years. I don't remember the elevators being there in the '90s, though. At any rate, that's what I've found. If the pictures come out, I'll try to post them here for any interested parties. And if anyone knows where I can find pics of the MFA and Armstrong elevators from the 1960s (I have a pic of the southern elevation of the Armstrong elevator from the Dolkos article), please let me know.
Thanks to everyone here for providing information on this remnant of the old KCCS. I'm currently building a bookshelf micro layout based on this siding, using the aforementioned Model Railroader article ("A Prototype Siding You Can Model," Paul Dolkos, July 1979) and the 1960s-vintage field notes provided by Karl on another Harrisonville thread here at frisco.org. Dolkos also revisited Harrisonville in MR's Model Railroad Planning 2008 in his "Branchline in a Bedroom" article, based on the Clinton Sub, which features a Frisco track chart of Harrisonville and its industries. Yesterday, armed with the above and a cheap disposable camera, I drove down to Harrisonville from my KC home for a little field research. While the siding and most of the industries it served are long gone, I did find the following: 1) Part of the old Frisco mainline and the MP interchange track are now being used as an industrial spur by whatever railroad (UP? Missouri and Northern Arkansas?) is operating on the old MP Carthage Sub. I saw a string of covered hoppers parked on the old, crumbling Frisco concrete overpass over Old US 71 (Commercial Street). Just east of the overpass the track is being used for salt and perhaps gravel unloading (accessible through Harrisonville's industrial park); to the west the line appears to be used to reach a grain elevator. Beyond the Frisco overpass the old MP line crosses Old US 71 on a newer deck girder span laid on the original abutments; a third, empty set of abutments flanking the road between the two overpasses mark the former MKT line. 2) The cemetery marked on the field notes taken by Karl's father in the '60s has, so far as I can tell, spread across and over the old KCCS roadbed since the siding was abandoned, obliterating all traces of it. Just past the overpasses and cemetery, hard up against Old 71 and the creekbed, I found a one-story cinderblock building with a basement garage. It matches a structure described by Paul Dolkos in the 1979 MR article as being part of the batch concrete plant. That building is now part of a complex called "Old Mill Stores" or some such. No trace remains of the trestle over the creek, which both Karl's father and Dolkos noted was used for unloading sand hoppers for the concrete plant. 3) Just past the creekbed, between it and Wall Street, the siding passed between the two storage sheds of what Dolkos called "Burge Brothers Feeds" in the 1979 article. Both buildings are still there, looking somewhat as they did in the photograph Dolkos included of them in his article, although the larger of the two metal sheds has long since been remodeled and now houses a beauty salon. The smaller shed, still equipped with an elevated concrete boxcar unloading dock, is being used for a flagpole business. When the tracks were still there, a switch located between the Burge Brothers buildings split the old KCCS line into two parallel, widely spaced sidings. 3) Between Mechanic and Washington streets one of MFA's warehouse buildings still stands, empty and vacant; MFA relocated to a site just off the former MP line some years ago, apparently. Everything else along the route of the former siding - another MFA warehouse, MFA's elevator, the old Armstrong elevator depicted in Dolkos' article and the Skelly and DX bulk oil dealers - have been razed, leaving behind empty lots. I'd hoped to at least find the oil tanks still there (they still stood when I briefly lived in the Harrisonville area in the late 1990s, abandoned with brush and shrubbery growing up around the tanks and through the piping), but they appear to have been removed in the last couple of years. I don't remember the elevators being there in the '90s, though. At any rate, that's what I've found. If the pictures come out, I'll try to post them here for any interested parties. And if anyone knows where I can find pics of the MFA and Armstrong elevators from the 1960s (I have a pic of the southern elevation of the Armstrong elevator from the Dolkos article), please let me know.
I,m glad that someone out there took some pictures of the rail junction in Harrisonville. I grew up in Grandview, which is close by, and have been there several times before, and after theHigh Line was abandoned and removed in H' Ville and unfortunately, I never took any photos of the routes like these. Thanks for sharing them. I enjoy them alot. grace65746
From What I have read in the July 1979 issue Of Model Railroader magazine on the article pertaining to Paul Dolkos' siding you can model, I have seen alot of those same structures still present in the early '70s, such as the black tank car body mounted on high concrete pillars, which was located near the concrete facility was located at Wall street and Commercial (old 71 hwy), The fuel dealers were still doing business as well. the sidings went all the way to the end at Armstrong elevator. The big notices in change, (at least from my own eyes), came in the '80s. The siding stopped halfway between Wall and Mechanic Streets and thearea in which the siding split into two tracks, was paved in. I never noticed the fuel dealers were active by that time though. After the trestle, it appeared to be paved over and around the two sidings, and the switch was gone. I remember the trestle being removed when the high line was being taken up back in 1991. As for the trackage to industries on the former MKT main line, I do not know if that portion was removed or if it was turned over to the M&NA, which has the old MP main line. I do know that the MKT was discontinued after 1958 and the remenants of the main to industries served by the Katy were turned over to the Frisco. I have a copy of this article as well as Paul's article on Branchline in a Bedroom. Plan on eventually building both. Gary Wayne
