Clinton Sub Retirement BV Jct - Dodson

Discussion in 'Clinton Subdivision' started by Karl, Dec 7, 2007.

  1. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    The Frisco's Clinton Sub and the MoP's Osawatamie Sub paralleled each between a point near Leeds and Dodson, where the lines crossed at grade. It is important to note that both lines were located in the Big Blue River Valley. The river flooded several times during the sixties, and the MoP wanted to raise its track a couple of feet or so. The lines were close enough that if the MP raised its track, the Frisco would have to raise its track as well.

    The Frisco was unwilling to expend that kind of money. Instead, it would retire the Clinton Sub between MP D-11.3 (thereafter known as Blue Valley or BV Junction) and Dodson. Trackage rights on the MoP would be obtained between those two points.

    In the summer of 1967 work commenced on that retirement. Here are a few shots taken of a lone Brownhoist as it works to remove the rails. Photos were taken just north of Blue Parkway.
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 7, 2007
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  2. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Karl (or anyone else),

    Would you happen to have any pictures or track diagrams of Dodson after the retirement of the Clinton sub segment mentioned in your post?

    I'm moving in to a new house, and planning a layout that will incorporate my current Free-moN modules (one modeling Harrisonville and one modeling Blairstown) and I've decided that a representation of Dodson might fit in the space I have available.

    You've previously posted the track plan before the retirement of this segment and a photo of a speeder at the Dodson diamonds, along with some description of the track and industries here, both of which help, but I'm modeling the early 1970s, so a little later information would be helpful.

    Thanks,
    Paul
     
  3. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Paul,

    I think that I have what you need. Give me a little time. I am still without electricity, and I am running on a generator.

    keb
     
  4. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Thanks Karl.

    No rush. I look forward to seeing what you have.

    Paul
     
  5. tferk

    tferk Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Paul -- I am attaching two files of diagrams for Dodson. The one not dated is prior to abandonment of the BV Jct to Dodson segment. If for some reason these do not upload, send me your email address to my work email (tferkenhoff@wyman.com). Like Karl (who is in my neck of the woods) I am also running on generator power at home, but I have Dodson diagrams on my PC at work.

    I am modeling the Mopac's Kansas City Subdivision from Neff Yard south to Osawatomie, so have had quite an interest in establishing track arrangements at Dodson.

    Also, I grew up in Harrisonville, and would be very interested in what you have done on your modules.

    Ted Ferkenhoff
    Houston, TX
     

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  6. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Hi Ted,

    That helps quite a bit.

    I think I have posted a link to my Harrisonville module plans before, but here is the basic track plan:
    http://www.nscaleintermodal.com/miscfiles/HarrisonvilleDiamondsFree-moN.pdf

    My focus here is on the diamonds, because I wanted to do crossing with diamonds were controlled by gates, so I left off the Frisco's station area and the old MKT trackage that was serviced by the Frisco. At this point in time, I have built the center section, and the cork is in place, but I haven't laid any of the track.

    Incidentally, I'm not too far from your neck of the woods now, having just moved to Lake Charles,LA. We didn't take Ike head on, so life is more or less normal here this week. I hope the power is restored in your neck of the woods before too long.

    Paul
     
  7. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    After 188 hours without electricity, the power came back on last evening, and the AC has been set to the "Meat Locker" setting. Ted, I hope that you are off generator power by now. I believe that roughly half of those who lost power are still without. We fared well, and have a leaning fence and half of a basketball goal backboard that is missing. Otherwise not even a ruffled shingle

    Just for grins the first attachement shows how Uncle Pete is keeping things moving on the Sunset Route in Missouri City.

    Ted covered things nicely with the Dodson Industrial Schematic. I have annotated a 1963 USGS Topo Sheet, and I have annotated my copy of the schematic.

    Of note, at Dodson the MP had two overlapping (lapped) passing tracks.

    In the summer of 1967, the passing track at Melville was retired, both MP crossings were removed, the Frisco signals were retired, and the mainline north of 75th St Terr was retired back to BV Jct. Two new connections were built as shown on the topo sheet.

    Operationally, if 59 didn't have any work at Melville-Dodson, the DS would line the train down the MP, CTC-contolled passing track. The train would stop, contact the DS to unlock the switch to the Clinton Sub, throw the switch, pull forward, restore the switch, and then continue south.

    If 59 did have work, then it would come down the MP mainline to the new connection, contact the DS to unlock the switch, and he would then shove back onto the old Frisco main, where he would conduct business. When complete, he would pull south past Indiana, and upon signal indication, shove back onto the MP passing track. The process to get onto the Clinton Sub was repeated, and 59 would continue south to Clinton.

    For train 58, the process was reversed.

    Just South of Blue River Road the Frisco had a fixed approach signal.

    The Frisco also connected with the KC Public Service RR which utilized the old Country Club Street Car Line. It served a couple industries in the Waldo area and down in the Country Club Plaza. The RR had an odd collection old psgr cars and a couple of 44 tonners which were kept near 87th and Woodland. I do have a locomotive roster lying about if interested. There were always rumors that the RR had some old Frisco stuff, but a couple of very mean-looking German Shepards kept me from getting close enough to see.
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2008
  8. RogerRT

    RogerRT Staff Member Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I can vouch for the German Shepard's, they are still there. Back in the late 80's Woodland Road was still open as a short cut to the Bendix plant. If you were heading south on Woodland, once you crossed the KCPS tracks the road turned to the east and started down a hill. If the leaves were off the tree and you looked north at the right time you could see a Frisco HW passenger car up in the woods. I always assumed it was part of the Smokey Hill collection which was scattered all around Dodson at the time. I tried to see if it was still there a couple years ago, but now Woodland is closed at the KCPS xing and between the neighborhood and the dogs, I chickened out. Roger
     
  9. tferk

    tferk Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Karl -- still on generator power...10 days and counting. We briefly had power last Wednesday and then a tree fell and took out several feet of lines, insulators and a pole. Neighbor believes that incident put our neighborhood at the bottom of the list. At least no damage to the house. Glad to hear you fared well also.

    Great info on Dodson operations. You answered a question I have been meaning to ask, that about how 58/59 operated through Dodson when they had work. I was lucky enough to witness 59 a couple of times in the late '70's at Dodson, but they had no work and proceeded south.

    I am guessing if Melville had been retired, the local was forced to do a few Dutch drops to serve the facing point sidings, vs. using any of the Mop runarounds.

    Ted Ferkenhoff
    Houston, TX
     
  10. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    At one time or another, Smokey Hill had stuff scattered all over the KC area…. Lenexa, the River Quay, Riverside, Richards Gebauer AFB, Dodson, and Ottawa, KS . The group had a very nice collection, but due to poor management had to sell a lot of the collection. Of interest to this group were SLSF 2-8-2, number 1352 and Business Car #3, which were sold to raise funds to keep operations going For a while, it kept a UP DD40AX and a UP Rotary at Dodson. They were stored on KCPS tracks near 87th and Prospect. I believe that the rotary and the 6900 went to the Illinois RR Museum. If I recall correctly, at the time of the sale, the owner of the KCPS placed a lien on the two pieces, and Smokey Hill had to go to court to take procession.

    The one time that I saw 59 switch Dodson-Melville, the crew employed a flying switch/Dutch drop (I believe that the terms are synonymous; perhaps they are regional variations of the same move) to get the cars ahead of the GP-7. From my vantage point on Indiana St, it was difficult to see the operation close-up.

    On the other hand, Flynn, just south of Dodson, was next to US Hwy 71, and offered a better vantage from which to watch 59 switch. Cars for Flinn came from KC. Since it was a facing point move, 59 employed such a move when it switched Flinn.

    I rode 59 but once. On its trip between 19th Street and Dodson, it carried marker lamps. At Dodson, the brakeman removed them and placed them in a locker in the caboose. My father said that this was done to prevent trackside brush from damaging the lamps or knocking them off.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2008
  11. tferk

    tferk Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I probably should start a new thread here....

    Karl -- I note you spelled Flinn and Flynn. As many times as I drove by the station sign, I would swear it was "Flynn", but look at the two versions of track charts...Frisco could not decide either.

    Any idea what year the Smoky Hill equipment showed up at Dodson? I am modeling 1979-1980 and would love the excuse to include the turbine and rotary.

    Ted Ferkenhoff
    Houston, TX
     

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  12. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Just trying to confuse myself. I was looking at my copy of the Grandview Br Industry Schematic and saw Flynn, but when I looked at the topo sheet it was Flinn; I wrote it both ways.

    Even the Frisco was confused. Here's page 17 from ETT 35D, May, 1947, page 42 from ETT 1, Oct 17, 1971, and page 2 from ETT 4, Apr 22, 1979. The Frisco spelled it with an "i" in these documents.

    I am like you, I remember Flynn on the station sign. Hey Roger, what do you remember?

    I will have to check the date about the Smokey Hill stuff. I might have a slide or two lying about.
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 23, 2008
  13. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Karl/Roger/Ted,

    Thanks for the added information. This will certainly help my modeling efforts.

    Karl, If you find that KCPS roster, I would certainly like to see it.

    Paul
     
  14. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Kansas City Public Service Freight Operation Roster

    Eng Num HP Builder Model Wheel Arr TE Weight Date
    1 500 Plym 65 ton B-B 32500 130,000 1936
    Orig Joplin-Pitssburg #2003; to Ft Dodge, Des Moines, & Southern #501; to Sonken-Galanka, 12/56; to KC & Westport Belt(KCPSFO) #1, 7/57; donated to Nat'l Museum of Transport
    2 300 GE 45 ton B-B 22500 90000 1941
    Orig Benica Arsenal; to US Army; to Columbia Steel & Shafting; to KCPSFO #2, 8/60
    3 300 GE 45 ton B-B 22500 90000 1943
    Orig US Army 7497; to Columbia Steel & Shafting; to KCPSFO, #3
    1120 900 ALCO HH900 B-B 59825 239300 1937
    Orig Youngstown & Northern #211; to KCS #1120, 4/56; to KCPSFO #1120; Scrapped 7/65

    There was also a 65 ton J-P #2001 which came via the Cassville and Exeter on the property which was not used.
    http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr1007/ce2001.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 4, 2008
  15. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Karl, Thanks for the roster info.

    Incidentally, the link to Don Ross's website lead me to look for more. There are some photos of KCPS freight locomotives here:
    http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr2267.htm

    Now, this leads to another question.... since the KCPS had roots as a traction line, were there trolley polls in place on the KCPS at the Frisco interchange, and if so, were they in place until the connection was taken out of service?

    From a modeling perspective, having a short section of line with the overhead wire in place would certainly distinguish the line from the Frisco and MoPac operations.

    Paul
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2008
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  16. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    The overhead wires were in place until the end of service on June 24, 1957.

    ETT 35D provides a clearance warning for overhead wires on page 20, attached.
     

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  17. Aaron DeShazo

    Aaron DeShazo Member

     

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  18. Aaron DeShazo

    Aaron DeShazo Member

    These are two screen shots showing the end of track at what I believe is BV Junction and an old trestle just south.
     
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  19. Aaron DeShazo

    Aaron DeShazo Member

    Does anyone happen to know when they started rebuilding Highway 71 between dodson and Grandview? I’m pretty sure that’s what caused most of the old Road bed to be destroyed.
     
  20. Aaron DeShazo

    Aaron DeShazo Member

    I recently found a news article from the June 17, 1988 addition of the Independence Missouri newspaper, documenting the ICC’s proposed abandonment of the BV to E. Lynn portion of the line.
     

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