Bowser's Frisco U-Boat

After seeing the photo, I was disappointed as well. eek: this is a good depiction of my reaction) I was looking for upgrades beyond the nice paint job and couldn't find them. This is same shell we fought with years ago. New tooling is not as expensive as it was 15-20 years ago because of improved tool making techniques so it is quite surprising that Bowser did not make the investment in a new car body. The Bowser model is simply not competitve in today's hobby market.

Unfortunately, to Bowser, their substandard product may be interpreted as low demand from Frisco modelers. We can only hope that fans of other roads will reject this model as well and send a message to Bowser.

There are simply too many good locomotives coming including the Atlas U30B (thanks for your help Bob H.), the Genesis GP15-1 (Bob H. again), Athearn SD45s (I gave in and bought the Athearn SD40s and have been fairly happy with them.) and probably more. I am going to save my money for these locomotives and skip the Bowser U25B although I would like to have that unit represented on my roster. Bummer.

I think we are going to see even more Frisco equipment coming out in the next 2-3 years because of groups like this and fans who are willing to share their paint diagrams and photos, like |-|Louis Griesemer|-|, Mr. Frisco.

 

Terry:

Below is the quote about the model from the Bowser website:

"Ready To Run and Fully Detailed. New die cast frame with a new fuel tank, fuel fills, and site glass. Brass MU Hoses, brass air hoses, brass windshield wipers, steel grab irons, steel coupler lift bars, operating headlight, window glass, can motor, brass flywheels, nickel silver wheels with RP25 flanges, metal knuckle couplers, DCC ready, warm white LED headlight. New handrails and they are installed. Body is easily removed if necessary. Made in China. Plastic body molded in USA."

Sound familiar to what they told you?

OK I am still bothered that the factory rep voluntarily told me a year ago December that he realized the handrails weree wrong, but they weren't going to change them. Go to one of the books that show a Frisco Phase IV U25b and you can see that the handrails actually go way down the side of the sill and are quite distictive. The older U25b had heavy handrails and if I remember correctly didn't fit vey tightly. Someone else jump in here and verify that or not.

On a scale of 1 to 10 (I'm on that today because I recently had back surgery and every time I see a doctor or physical therapist that's the first thing they ask in regards to my pain. It's actually a bothersome federal requirement) let's put the Atlas B30-7 at a 10 and go from there. Their Trainman GP38 that came out last year would rate a 6 to me on that scale because it does run well but has a non prototype anti-climber on the front and limited detail. I would give this locomotive a 7 or 8. It will probably run well, is the correct color, and comes with a Tsunami sound decoder which is a big plus. Almost all manufacturers are competing to upgrade their body shells on their locomotives and cars. Case in point is that Atlas completely redid their 6 bay cylindrical hopper body adding see thru roofwalks and swing bolsters. Beside the old car the difference is striking. In conclusion, it looks like Bowser took the easy way out and did not upgrade their body shell which to me is a mistake, but that's just my opinion.

I, like several others on this forum who are friends of mine and given their opinion, think the model just doesn't live up to our standards. You need to decide what standard you want set and decide.

As he mentioned on the thread about the Athearn SD40-2, I was with Rick McClellan when he first saw the model and he didn't like it. After further thought, he bought all three road #'s and is eagerly awaiting the upcoming SD45. This locomotive had an updated body shell and was priced at $99.95 which both of us thought was very reasonable. I am saying this because Bowser has chosen to price their's comparable the the Atlas B30-7 that I mentioned as the standard. In my opinion a 7-8 level locomotive priced at a 10 level.

Bottom line, will I buy one. Maybe, but I need to see it first. When the upcoming Athearn Genesis GP15-1 and the Atlas U30b are announced I will be the first in line to order mine unless Rick beats me first.

I hope others render opinions before you make your final decision.

 

Absolutely poor business practice to release a photo of a product that when questioned the company claims they are "Improving or going to Improve". If they indeed have made or are making these changes they need to get photos of the new and Improved product out. I am thinking they are in a damage control mode and telling people they are improving the model to keep them form canceling their orders. I have never been a fan of this new type of pre order production. To me this photo looks as if the model is way out of scale width wise, like the old BB Athearn locos were. Maybe it is just a photographic Illusion but for some reason they just do not look right to me. Even if I could afford to buy a couple right now (which I can't) these would not be on my wish list.
Bob Wintle
Parsons, Ks.

 

In the small picture it doesn't look that bad. but I looked at a bigger picture of it on the web site and looks wise it is comparable to Model Power, except for the paint color. I think I will pass this up and wait for the U30B. But I will give Stewart one more thing other than the color, they painted the handrails correctly. Also now I'm not sure if I will be able to get an SD45, because of something new I'm doing, you can find out about in a thread I'm about to start.

 

Bob:

First of all, Ethan is not quite correct in his response as Ken has already pointed out that the top of the handrail posts are painted wrong but that is no big deal. He is correct about the Athean issue.

Having slept on it, maybe I can go one step further in a categorization of my main issue, which is the price point compared to the model itself. They have created a new category which they are calling their "Executive Line". Let's compare that to recent recategorizations that have been done by Athearn and Atlas, both companies explaining up front why they did what they did.

Athearn:

Standard Line:

Locomotives and rolling stock specifically designed to keep them to a certain price point. There are no more Genesis rolling stock items being produced and therefore some of the detail parts like lift bars, etc. are left off to be "Modeler Installed". This saved about $5.00-$7.00 per car at retail. The locomotives are retaining a price point of usually under $100 as the SD40-2 exemplified. As I discussed with Rick McClellan I thought it was neat to see a locomotive in that price range have a roof beacon on top installed. At that price point it is easier to overlook some mispainted handrails.

Genesis Line:

Locomotives that have the highest degree of detail that the company offers. They also come equipped with or without sound decoders. The upcoming release of the GP15-1 will be in that line.

Atlas:

Trainman Line:

Moderately priced locomotives and rolling stock intended for the beginning modeler. I remember after the release of the Trainman GP38 calling my contact at Atlas and asking if the hadrails were as fine as those on the Master Line and he said they weren't. Bowser's in the picture look about as thick as these.

Master Silver (non-sound) & Gold (sound):

Top of the line models, both rolling stock and locomotives, of which the current 6 bay hopper and B30-7 are examples.

My point here is that Stewart/Bowser items for years have been comparable to Athearn Blue Box or Accurail. They to me are moving up their price point to equal the top tier of the other two, but not their level of quality.

 

I don't think that Bowser is misrepresenting it's new version of the U25B in its advertising. There is a new frame, new motor, accomodation for DCC and sound, and detail parts added to the frame and body. Unfortunately, they used the same body casting that they did 20-25 years ago, and that's what's really holding this model back. That and the inaccurate paint job.

Atlas also has the "Classic" line whose Frisco models were the B/Y GP7 and RS1. The detail is excellent but it seems there is no provision for DCC or sound in these models.

Rich

 

There is a "drop-in" Tsunami for the RS-1. And the GP-7, if I'm not mistaken...both of them are "Light-board" swaps. I'll know more about the ease of the RS-1 install in a couple of weeks, after I've got the Tsunami and speaker.

Glenn in Tulsa.

 

This was the quote that I was reacting to. Not to start a flame war here, but I think Bowser posted an accurate photo of the "new and improved" U25B that they are going to sell though many of the improvements are internal and do not show up in the photo. I think that we can all agree that the body shell was not improved and is a major negative of this model. I also agree that because of the body shell, this model is not up to the standards one would expect at its price point.

Surely someone here will purchase one of these models. I hope that he/she will post a review so that the people on this board will get a first hand account of the strengths and weaknesses of this model.

Rich

 

We are getting closer to the release of this locomotive, which the company website now says is May. As with the recent previous releases like the two Athearn SD's, as soon as someone receives one or even sees one at their local hobby shop, please let the rest of us know what you think. By recent posts on this thread, there seems to be some issues with the body shell that I hope turn out to be minor in nature.
This was a key locomotive in the Frisco stable as it was their choice at the time over the competing product from EMD, the GP35 and they were seen system wide. Short of the announced Division Point offering in brass, this will probably be our only chance to obtain this model.

 

Bowser announced yesterday that they have begun shipping out their U25b's to distributors so pushers and hobby shops should either have them or soon will. Having said that, due to the amount of discussion about the shortfalls of the body detail (except for the paint color which the rep told me would match Atlas), I would appreciate feedback to this forum from anyone who either buys one or sees one in person at their local shop.

Due to these shortfalls in the pictures, I did not pre-order one (or more) taking a wait and see attitude. That's frustrating because the U-Boats were some of my favorite Frisco locomotives and appeared regularly on the Wichita Sub.

 

Bob, I will not be ordering one. Maybe I would consider it if it was $50 or less. While they got the orange right on the rest of it looks like someting you would get from TYCO. Oh well, I'll just wait for the GP15-1's

TYCO = Train You Can't Operate

 

And the high-nose version if I recall correctly. Doug

 

Terry, Can you post a picture of it so we can compare what you got to the pre production photo?

 

Terry:

If you are going to take some pictures and post them, could we see a couple of close-ups of the handrail stanchion detail, especially where they connect to the body. You are correct that the ladder can be easily corrected, but the main concern that I had was the handrails. They are not correct for this version of the loco and if they are the same as the provious releases, they fit loose and are very heavy looking. This is one of the areas of finality of detail that has improved dramatically over the years with the intoduction of newer and stronger plastics. In my opinion, this is an area that Bowser has not kept up with current industry standards. Botttom line, putting them in a consist with Atlas and Athearn models makes them look inferior, no matter how good they perform and sound. Just my opinion.

 

Can someone post some pictures?