Baldwin 2-10-2

Discussion in '2-10-2 Santa Fe' started by jbloch, Sep 27, 2006.

  1. jbloch

    jbloch Member

    I plan on modeling transition era, i.e. late 50's. Having looked at the Springfield library, I wondered if any manufacturer has produced the Baldwin 2-10-2. Stewart has a couple of the Baldwin switchers in Frisco logo(I just bought the DS-4-4-1000 on sale from MB Klein). Doubt if any have been made that they're in Frisco logo, but doubt it would be much of a problem to decal one. I know BLI makes a 2-8-2 USRA light in Frisco logo, though appears to be out of stock

    Thanks,

    Jim
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 27, 2006
  2. jbloch

    jbloch Member

    Looks like I may have answered my own question. Looks like the BLI USRA light, which came out in 2004 is now largely unavailable--one US and one German source on the Walthers website are listed as having had it(in Frisco logo) at least at some point in the past--haven't attempted to contact either.

    Looks like IHC makes both a 2-10-2 and a Mikado 2-8-2 in Frisco logo. Having been an active member of the Model Railroader forum since earlier this year, seems that overall IHC quality is not very highly thought of. Interesting to see if anyone here has any thoughts.

    Jim
     
  3. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    No one has produced, in brass or plastic, a true model Frisco spot-class 2-10-2. The 60 locomotives which were built between 11/1916 and 9/1917 predate the USRA 2-10-2’s. The light 2-10-2’s have been produced in HO by 3 firms, Bachman Proto 2000, IHC and BLI. No doubt brass USRA Santa Fe’s have been produced; keep an eye on Ebay.


    SLSF 1-60*
    USRA 2-10-2A**
    USRA 2-10-2B**
    Drvr Dia
    60"
    57"
    63"
    Cylinder
    29" x 30"
    27" x 32"
    30" x 32"
    TE
    71480 lbs
    69400 lbs
    74000 lbs
    BP
    200 lbs
    200 lbs
    190 lbs
    Wt Drivers
    296000 lbs
    274000 lbs
    293000 lbs
    Wt Pilot
    26000 lbs
    23000 lbs
    28500 lbs
    Wt Trailer
    58000 lbs
    54000 lbs
    58500 lbs
    Wt Engine
    380000 lbs
    352000 lbs
    380000 lbs
    Driver Wheel Base
    21'-0
    21'-0
    22'-4"
    Engine Wheel Base
    39'-1"
    40'-4"
    42'-4"
    GA
    72.6 sq ft
    76.3 sq ft
    82.2 sq ft
    EHS
    5113.5 sq ft
    4666 sq ft
    5156 sq ft
    SHS
    1233 sq ft
    1085 sq ft
    1230 sq ft
    Tender
    10000 gal/18 ton
    10000 gal/16 ton
    10000 gal/16 ton
    Smokebox Ctr Ht (from rail)
    10'-0
    9'-8"
    10'-2"
    Smokestack Ht
    16'-2"
    15'-0
    15'-9"
    Dia First Boiler Course
    86"
    86"
    88"
    Tube Length
    22'-0
    20'-6"
    20-6"
    Cab Ht (from rail)
    15'-8.25"
    14-7"
    15'-2"
    Cab Length
    78"
    78"
    78"




    *As delivered



    ** Source 1930 Locomotive Cyclopedia






    Although, the spot class locomotives weighed the same as the USRA heavy 2-10-2’s, many of the other dimensions were closer to those of the light variation . For modeling purposes, the light USRA 2-10-2 could serve as a good starting point. On the low end, re-lettering with Frisco decals and the addition of an old Kemtron Frisco coonskin headlight bracket would produce a close facsimile. Further detailing would make an interesting project, and could include a large smoke box door, a Delta trailer with booster, proper dome locations, smoke-density lamp, dual NY air pumps, re-worked tender, etc. Variations existed, and selecting one locomotive in particular to model might be the best bet. Worthington and Elsco feed-water heaters were tested on several locomotives, and this detail would make a distinctive looking model.
    If you are a stickler for modeling a certain period, you might wish to rethink using the 2-10-2’s for your transition era (late 50’s) layout. The spot class engines that were not rebuilt into 4-8-2’s were retired by 1945.
    Athearn also produced a smooth running USRA light 2-8-2, lettered as 4031. You might be able to find one. Check with some of the on-line hobby shops and Ebay
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 29, 2006
  4. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Great info, Karl; thanks for sharing.

    Jim, we'll look forward to seeing any photos-in-progress or the finished product.

    Modeling locale might be something to consider, too, for the 2-10-2s. I know they were too large for the bridge ratings on the River Division.

    The spot series were far from aesthetically pleasing, but to me they're just homely enough to be an attractive modeling subject!

    Good luck!
     
  5. I was under the impression that SLSF had retired all steam engines by the early/mid 50's, with the Clinton Sub being one of the last holdouts for relatively light steam like the Russian decapods. If you're a stickler for accuracy and want to feature both steam and diesels, you might want to move your time period back to 1950 or so, when you could blend late mainline steam power with early freight diesels in black-and-gold and "racehorse" E-units blazing in red and gold for the premier passenger jobs.

    If you're a stickler for *absolute* accuracy, you would need to go back to the 1930s or earlier in order to feature 2-10-2's as mainline power. I recall reading, perhaps in Joe Collias's "Frisco Power", that the last two spot-series 2-10-2's were recalled from the scrap line shortly before World War II in order to serve the newly-built branch line to Fort Leonard Wood.

    How closely you stick to this is up to you, of course. It's your prerogative to decree that in your own personal alternate version of history, Frisco steam held out until the late 50's.... and tell anyone who persists in criticizing you to go build his own layout! Just come up with a cover story for anything that deviates too far from reality. For example, I'd consider it a plausible fiction that the Frisco *could* have kept a few 2-10-2's around through the traffic surge of WWII for helper service on Dixon Hill or other challenging mainline grades, or as emergency backup power, or for some slow-speed service where their hefty weight and counterbalancing problems would not damage the track.

    Good luck! I'm sure plenty of folks here would love to see what you come up with.

    Bradley A. Scott
     
  6. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Just to confirm, The last revenue run on the Frisco under steam power was by 2-8-2 #4018 on Feburary 29,1952.

    Steam on the Frisco was gone by 1953, with one exception.

    Frisco had leased a steam switcher, number 3749, to the Alabama State Prison Farm, it wasn't returned from lease until 1956. This engine also appeared in the John Wane Film "The Wings of Eagles", which was filmed in 1956.

    This information comes from Lloyd Stagner's Frisco Steam Finale, though I think I've seen it reported elsewhere as well.

    Paul
     
  7. slsfrr (Jerome Lutzenberger RIP 9/1/2018)

    slsfrr (Jerome Lutzenberger RIP 9/1/2018) Engineer Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    JIm,

    The steam locomotives manufactured by/for IHC have excellent mechanisms. However, they lack for detail and the flanges do not meet NMRA standards. Another drawback is that they basically use the same boiler for all their engines. Reading reviews, the 2-10-2 is suppose to have been upgraded with NMRA wheels and extra detail. It is also DCC ready (??) I, also, would be interested in hearing from anyone who has purchased this engine.

    I think it is hard to beat Bachmann Spectrum's 2-8-0. They have good detail, run good, and you can drop a SoundTrax decoder in them with very little modification. The best part is that they are reasonably priced.

    Good luck on your project.

    Jerome
     
  8. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter


    Jerome:
    I've heard of issues with the IHC flanges; particularly that they have trouble making it through Code 83 turnouts or smaller. I've not tested it myself so it's strictly second-hand information. Regardless, with a couple of IHC locomotives that are "good enough" I'm thinking Code 100 might have to be "good enough" as well.
     
  9. slsfrr (Jerome Lutzenberger RIP 9/1/2018)

    slsfrr (Jerome Lutzenberger RIP 9/1/2018) Engineer Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Chris,

    Sorry, I did not mean to imply that IHC steam locomotives are unworthy of purchasing. I have several on my lay out, the 2-8-0 being one of my favorite. I bought it at a train show with a SoundTraxx decoder already installed and then I darken the wheels, side rods, and added a coon skin to the front. The locomotive is a great runner and pulls good, being as light as it is. However, going through code 70 switches the flanges will ride the flange way of the frog, especially Micro Engineering switches. They don't derail, thay just go clump, clump! :)... Another modler suggested taking a piece of hack saw blade and cut the depth of the flang way to clear the flange. I might give that a try. Code 83 is not a problem, or at least it has not been for me.

    Take care,
    Jerome
     
  10. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    Well, here goes.
    The Frisco had two of the spot engines left, the 19 and 40, which were overhauled for service on the Ft. Leonard Wood Branch. I don't know when they were utlimately retired, but bet they were fun on some of the curves on that line.
    At the time that Overland Models produced the 4415 class coalburner models, I managed to talk them out of two superstructures (boilers). I had a Hallmark 2-10-2 mechanism (POOR!) so scratchbuilt the tender, cylinders and some other stuff to get what I wanted. The 19 has been done for years and the 40 is still under construction. Tender is finished, but as you can see, the engine needs some attention. These things are like the Frisco Mallets, they're so homely that they are attractive.
     

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  11. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Homely? No way! Beauty queens? Can't say that either. They're more like the girl next door.

    Nicely done, Don!
     
  12. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Don - Seeing your SLSF 19 reminds me of when we were down at Newburg years ago and you had it with you - I think a bunch of us were on the way to a FMIG meeting in Tulsa, so it must have been 1982 or 1983. Anyway, we were having a late lunch in the Houston House and had a bunch of Frisco brass sitting on a table. While we were on the phone with Doug Hughes or someone, one of the locals walked over and picked up the 19 before we could tell him "hands off". You, Joe and I each about had a heart attack before we got him to put it down before he dropped it or got finger prints on it. Yike!

    Remember that? I recall Jan Jester was there too.

    Ken
     
  13. jbloch

    jbloch Member

    Thanks for all the info.

    To respond to some of your comments: the original question was more of a fishing expedition to get information on what steam locos are available--I don't have any Frisco books (yet), but am not surprised that the 2-10-2 would have been out of service by the 1950's. My late 50's/early 60's era plans are based on wanting to run both steam and diesel obviously, but I don't mind "sliding" a little if a particular loco strikes my fancy.

    My priority, however will be to attempt to obtain (or airbrush as may be necessary) a pair of E8's, as I actually rode the Frisco passenger train (including the final one that rode through Rolla, MO, in the 1960's, my hometown where I lived at the time)--discussed this on the diesel thread--can't believe that P2K actually produced Citation E8 in the early 1990's--my ideal lash-up is to have Count Fleet & Citation in tandem pulling the heavyweight/streamline combo train that ran through Rolla.

    Anyway, again, thanks for the info--if you find any specific info on available Frisco locos, please post the information here or feel free to e-mail me.

    Jim
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 8, 2006
  14. fireboy

    fireboy Member

    what is your opinion on the bachmann 2-10-2 Santa Fe type with "dog house"?
     

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