A (Non-Prototypical) Ellsworth KS Themed Layout

Discussion in 'General' started by rjthomas909, Jul 10, 2024.

  1. rjthomas909

    rjthomas909 Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I had posted a version of this project somewhere along the way in the "Workshop Wednesday" or similar thread, but starting a new one here to capture the project.
     
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  2. rjthomas909

    rjthomas909 Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Recently I entered a layout design contest, creating a fictional version of Ellsworth Kansas, with some prototypical elements. The design is suitable for a bedroom, office, or outbuilding size layout. I have created a couple of versions, wrestling with how I might build the plan. While I would have as an option my fictional/alternate history "Wichita & Northwestern" as a subject, I think this is perfectly suitable for a Frisco-themed layout, set in just about any time where the Burrton Sub existed, up to the merger with the BN.

    Some Notes:

    Built at the terminal of the Chisolm trail in the late 1800s, Ellsworth KS was a bustling cattle town for a time, when the Kansas Pacific Railroad had a stockyard there. The Kansas Pacific line would later become part of the Union Pacific. Early maps from the turn of the century show the “Kansas Midland” Railroad interchanging with the UP and heading Southwest.

    The Burrton Subdivision of the Frisco meandered from Wichita to near Hutchinson with interchanges to the Rock Island, Santa Fe, and Missouri Pacific. The route travelled through several small towns to reach Ellsworth, interchanging with the UP at its terminus. There were a few local industries in Lyons and Burrton among the other small towns with perhaps a single industry track. Conductors described the trains in the 1970s as handful of “geep whatever” (I have found photos with GP-7s) with mainly interchange traffic and service to a few industries. Photos can be found online (let me know if you have any) with active operation, but they are few and far between. This 100 mile subdivision would have been a long one at 25 miles an hour maximum speed.

    The design that I selected is a “U” shape, using one of the short walls for the door. The layout models a non-prototypical representation of a line entering the town of Ellsworth and meeting an interchange with the UP. The arrangement of the town businesses relative to the lines is not prototypical but can convey a sense of place with a few details. The prototypical track arrangement was a large wye with spurs. The layout design was created in AnyRail, and the model file is available upon request.

    The plan includes a small yard and a representation of the interchange with the UP. A small diesel service area provides parking spots for a few locomotives. The town has eight industries common to a small midwestern town and although not rail served, mostly present in Ellsworth today. The names selected for several of the industries come from a 1970s industry diagram for the Frisco. These include a propane dealer, agricultural products warehouse, a grain elevator, lumber yard, TAMKO building materials plant, an oil depot / refinery, and a water treatment plant. A team track with a small dock is also included and represents a spot where telephone poles were unloaded for Western Light and Telephone. The historic downtown is represented by a handful of businesses and includes the “Terra Cotta Depot and UP Caboose” which are part of a historical display still present in Ellsworth. An abandoned mill makes a great background flat, and is not rail-served. I want to also thank John Lowrance for a recent clinic in which he outlined a water treatment facility as a modeled industry…a fun choice generating a variety of traffic. The space remains uncluttered, with a 6-ft wide isle, and with a minimum curve radius of 26 inches, can accommodate most rolling stock up to ~60-ft length.

    The operation of the layout with this limited space would consist of using the interchange and small yard as open staging, and forming up a train to service the industries of the town. The yard and interchange would hold about 15 cars, and balance the number of spots at the industries pretty well. The track at the end of the yard run-around should be long enough for a pair of four axle locomotives (GP-7s/18s/15s, etc.). The UP mainline can serve as a display track and hold a few extra cars to be swapped out between operations. One could also place cars on the middle track near the grain elevator and use that to represent a set-out of cars by the inbound train from Wichita, and to be placed at industries. If the layout were built in an area where an extension with a staging yard off to the upper left, traffic to and from Wichita on the Burrton Subdivision would serve to greatly enhance operations.

    The industries provide a variety of freight cars for a relatively modern era theme. The table below demonstrates a possible selection of cars. A schedule could be developed for these industries with differing days of service and frequency. I would use JMRI to generate switch lists and provide variety to the operating sessions.

    Ellsworth-10x12-2024-07-10a.jpg
     
  3. rjthomas909

    rjthomas909 Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I also created a version for a single car garage sized space (half of my two-car garage).

    WNW-Ellsworth-9X16-2024-07-10a.jpg
     
  4. rjthomas909

    rjthomas909 Member Frisco.org Supporter

    ...and a version for a shed larger than the layout contest limitation... If I can pull off in the next few months, I will most likely build this one (or similar size).

    Ellsworth-WNW-2024-07-10a-12x14.jpg
     
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  5. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    This will certainly make an interesting layout. I'll have to look at the track plans closer when I'm at home.

    Did you ever get your out building put together like you had talked about earlier this year?
     
  6. rjthomas909

    rjthomas909 Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Still working on it. Been back and forth on an addition vs outbuilding. Back to the outbuilding at this time.
     
  7. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    I'm looking through your layout designs as I eat breakfast this morning.

    My thoughts that apply to all 3 plans:

    1. Consider changing the lead for the locomotive service facility so that it is directly accessible (drive straight in) from the house track instead of pulling up to the depot and backing in

    2. Consider a crossover toward the end of the interchange track to allow for a run around of that cut of cars

    Other than that, everything looks pretty good
     
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  8. Coonskin

    Coonskin Member

    Robert:

    I think all three look good as is.

    As for the service area: Almost all switching-type layouts can benefit by some elements not being "slam dunk" trailing point moves.

    Reason for that: I do not completely subscribe to the a Mindheim Mindset crowd. That is, simplistic designs that quickly become repetitious to switch, thus become boring very quickly.

    A layout represents too much money and time invested into it only to become operationally boring shortly after operations began. I like "play value" in a layout for longer interest. For my personality type, I want variety and some challenge in the switching moves required. Otherwise, I can/will lose interest quickly in the layout and am ready to do something else.

    Good luck in the contest!
     
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  9. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    If I may suggest one operation detail for the layout, it would be the Frisco-UP crossing and the “cabin-type” interlocking plant, which protected the crossing. In short, a cabin interlocking plant is one in which the the train crew operates the levers; there was no leverman. Such plants were placed at locations, where one route had a much greater traffic volume than the other route. In many cases, these plants were placed where a private road, e.g., logging road, crossed a “steam" road. Often, these installations were tied to the superior route’s signal system.

    Signals which governed the inferior route could be variable. The full complement of approach/distant signals, derails, and home signals or combinations thereof could be used, or a simpler configuration of stop signs and derails for the inferior route could be used.

    As noted, information about Ellsworth is rare, and I’ve never been able to learn more about the specifics of this interlocking plant, which lasted into the late 1950’s. By the early 1960’s the plant had been replaced with an electrically-locked gate. My 1920’s, 1940’s, and 1950’s Books of Rules have nothing, which specifically governs cabin interlocking plants.

    Screen Shot 2024-07-11 at 8.34.26 AM.png Screen Shot 2024-07-11 at 8.35.28 AM.png
     
  10. rjthomas909

    rjthomas909 Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Thanks Karl! I'll see what I can do to work it in. I do have photos of the depot and the bridge over the Smoky Hill River. The Terra Cotta depot is still on display as well (I guess I should look into when that was moved to Ellsworth).

    Guys, any other input is definitely welcomed. Nothing yet set in stone (ahem, benchwork).

    -Bob T.
     
  11. rjthomas909

    rjthomas909 Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Here is an interesting photo from Leavenworth KS(?) IN(?). @Karl , is this something like you are describing as a "cabin" interlocking ?

    Leavenworth-CGW-Depotjpg.jpg
     
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  12. rjthomas909

    rjthomas909 Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Bridge over Smoky Hill River.

    3952.jpg

    -Bob T.
     
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  13. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    That is Leavenworth, KS. One of our local modelers, Jeff Needham, has that on his O scale layout of Leavenworth.
     
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  14. geep07

    geep07 Member

    Once you conquered the "play value" on a complicated switching track plan, would it not be boring after awhile? You have conquered the game. What do anyone else do then, rip it out scenery and all and design a new track plan? (LOL).
    Model railroading is like drinking wine, everyone has different taste pallet. I keep my interest high by operating on as many layouts that I get invited to. Some are simple and some are hypnotic nightmares.
    I try to focus myself and treat it as a prototype/real railroading. I am pretty sure the railroads (company's) did not design track plans to be a switching game for the crews to serve a costumer.
    It's just a hobby, and the whole objective to to have FUN. Whether you treat it as a game or play real trains. Keep your interest motivated, whether your in operations, modeling, historical, etc.
     
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  15. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    Excellent points, and this one of the reasons why I love this forum. You can get several "wine tasters" to all sample your product and give feedback.
     
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  16. Coonskin

    Coonskin Member

    Well, like I said, the points I mentioned in my above post are things that model railroading needs to include for me.

    If the layout is of a good design, then the variety of moves to accomplish the work called for by the car forwarding program need not get so repetitious as to be boring.

    For me, there need to be factors so that it does NOT become a very predictable series of moves.

    As for prototypes: There were always places that were challenging to switch, more so the farther back in time you go. There were several such places on the Frisco's Fort Smith Sub alone. Here's a circa 1960s track chart for Rogers, AR Zone 1.


    SLSF_Rogers_Zone1.jpg

    As you can see, there are several "no no's" by the standards of model railroaders: Switchbacks, a convoluted wye (that's dissected by another track using a diamond) short facing/trailing point spurs, multiple spots for the same track, and such. AND, that's just one portion of one town.

    Given my tastes, the ABOVE would be a town I would chose to model. I would chose that over a simplistic track plan any day of the week. There will be enough variety in moves required (by a well designed car forwarding system) that mind-numbing repetition will be avoided, and session can be become a cerebral exercise much more often.

    Sometimes model railroaders listen too much to the "influencer's" in the hobby instead of experimenting to learn by experience what is best for their personal "Givens n' Druthers". It takes time to distill what one likes in this hobby. As for my tastes, I'm now "old and wise". However, to get to this place in my hobby, I started off "young and stupid". I've learned a LOT about what I like and don't like in model railroading, and the end result is I cater to those likes.

    I've interfered with Robert's thread enough.

    I have more I wouldn't mind sharing, but if I do, I will do so in my KC&G thread and not tie up anymore of Robert's thread.

    Bottom line: It's all up to the individual to learn what they like/don't like within model railroading, and aim for what they like.

    Have fun!
     
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  17. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Like Andre, I have found that modeling the real world most often provides the necessary variability to keep it interesting. Like John Peluso, I keep it even more interesting by operating on multiple layouts as much as possible, but I tend to gravitate to certain jobs on individual railroads; in some cases local switchers, in others road trains, in one case either Dispatcher or Hostler, in yet another Yardmaster, and in the final case, a yard bowl job classifying train after train after train (it's the challenge to stay ahead and get it right).
     
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  18. rjthomas909

    rjthomas909 Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Keep the comments and suggestions coming guys! I can always gen up alternative designs. My taste is in the model photography, so I’m happy regardless of the operating scheme.

    -Bob T.
     
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  19. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    I would like to add on to this point here: as I detailed in the layout thread for my previous location, having a large collection of EZ track is quite handy. I was able to not just draw out, but operate several different design types with no long term commitment to any of them. Almost like a try before you by type of thing. After 3 years of trial and error, I had a pretty good idea of what I wanted in my permanent layout.

    It looks like Bob has plenty of time to think out and make revisions before construction starts. If you need it, I know a guy with an EZ track collection that could be loaned out.
     
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  20. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    The image depicted in Bob’s post represents a post-1946 image of the Frisco’s bridge over the Smokey Hill River. The ODPT over the river’s main channel was removed and replaced with a 70-foot through plate girder. The prototype bridge was 383 feet in length, so some compression will be necessary to fit it into a model layout.

    Please see, http://www.frisco.org/shipit/index....-burrton-subdivision-smokey-hill-river.14908/ , for more information about bridge F607.8.
     
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