65 of 99

Discussion in 'General' started by gstout, Jul 22, 2013.

  1. gstout

    gstout Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I suppose I should already know this, but what is the location of the Frisco passenger train crossing the river in the photo posted by Charlie Dix that is labeled "65 of 99?" This is a really great image, almost more so for the bridge and the background than the train.

    GS
     
  2. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    URL please
     
  3. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

  4. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    It is hard to tell by viewing the photo on my cell, but I believe this is the Arkansas River at Tulsa - West Tulsa. That is an interesting consist...Firefly cars with other stuff on the rear.
     
  5. tmfrisco

    tmfrisco Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Karl is correct. The picture was taken from the 11th Street bridge looking west across the river. The refinery in the background is the Mid-Continent/DX/Sun/Holly refinery on the west side of the Arkansas River. The space between the camera's location and the Frisco bridge is now occupied with the two bridges of I-244. The new west bound bridge which was completed several months ago was raised to accommodate rail in the future, and now it is not possible to see the railroad bridge unless in the far right westbound lane. This is a cool picture. I wish the date was known.

    Terry
     
  6. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Frisco.org Supporter

    Since the train is a little longer than the usual Firefly consist, it might be the ca. 1946 "Texas Flash" that covered the Firefly run and extened to Texas for a while??

    Tom G.
     
  7. gstout

    gstout Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Thanks. I'm not really a "steam guy," but it's really a good photo. I think it's the graphics on the bridge that makes it.

    GS
     
  8. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Tom,

    It certainly is an interesting consist. Cars one, two, and four are from the standard Firefly train set. The third car is an add-on chair car. At first glance, I thought that it was one of the deluxe chair cars, but those cars had paired-windows; the car in the picture does not. I need to dig into the passenger car diagrams, and see if I can find a likely candidate.

    Trailing the Firefly train set, we can see two additional cars, the first of which appears to be a un-air conditioned chair car. The last car in the picture is more difficult to discern.

    I am inclined to believe that Train 118 is handling troops, and extra cars (at least two) have been tacked onto the rear of the Frisco’s hottest passenger train. The streamlined, Little Ten-Hundred has been replaced with the 1509 in order to keep the heavier train on schedule.
     
  9. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    After looking through the psgr car diagrams, I believe that the third car of the consist is either 768 or 769, which were built by AC&F during Aug 1916, and later rebuilt by the Frisco during Nov 1944. Given this date, we place the date of the photograph after Nov 1944.
     
  10. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Frisco.org Supporter

    Karl is dead on with his passenger car spotting. Those cars (767-768-769) were 72' footers, you can see it's shorter than the coach in front and the cafe-lounge behind. Also 768 and 769 were painted in the "blue-gray" scheme in November 1944. The next car behind the cafe-lounge might be one of 770-775 class chair cars that had monitor roofs and paired windows?? (Later 770 had had ducts added to it's monitor roof and 771 was remodeled with a turtle-back roof, 772-775 retained their monitor roofs.)

    Tom G.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2013
  11. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    I have been mucking about the stack of stuff , and I came across additional information about the Firefly. The train did not lead a simple, operational life, and the Frisco made numerous adjustments, which returns us to the consist depicted in this Frisco Archive image.

    http://frisco.org/mainline/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/4-8-2-1509-date-and-location-unknown.jpg


    Officially, The Firefly made its inaugural run on December 10, 1939 with conventional heavyweight equipment. The Frisco placed the first, streamlined train-set into service on March 29, 1940; the second set followed on April 30, 1940.

    During her history, the Frisco made several changes to the Firefly’s operation and routing. On June 21, 1942, the Frisco discontinued The Firefly between Tulsa and Oklahoma City. This change may have been related to war-time dictates from the government. On July 4, 1943, The Frisco re-instated The Firefly operations between Tulsa and Oklahoma City, and it also renumbered the Will Rogers, number 4, to number 14. At this time, the Frisco placed a nearly 3-hour delay in 117’s scheduled at Tulsa, before it resumed the run to Oklahoma City.

    On February 4, 1945, the Frisco combined the 118-14 operations into one train; the operations were split back to separate trains on July 26, 1945. Again, the cause of this change is open to speculation, but we might surmise that war-time traffic logistics are at the root.

    The Firefly made its last run on May 11, 1946; the next day, May 12, 1946, The Texas Flash appeared. Using the Firefly’s equipment, The Texas Flash operated between Kansas City and Dallas on a fast, daylight schedule. The experiment was short-lived, and on May 2, 1947, the Firefly returned to its Kansas City – Oklahoma City run. By 1950, the Frisco realized that the war-time, passenger boom had fizzled, and it had begun the rationalization process. On April 30, 1950 the Firefly made its last call on Oklahoma City.

    After learning this, I am inclined to believe that the train depicted in the Frisco Archive is the combined 14/118.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022

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