4-8-4 #4516

Discussion in '4-8-4 Northern' started by chris, Feb 16, 2002.

  1. chris

    chris Guest

    SLSF 4516 4-8-4 - 1999 Sedalia, MO

    Yours truly with 4516. Mo. State Fairgrounds, Sedalia, MO in 1999. Photo by Ron Kelly (my father in law).
     

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  2. chris

    chris Guest

    SLSF 4516 4-8-4 -1999

    4516 on display (and rather sorry condition); Missouri State Fairgrounds, Sedalia MO in August, 1999. Hitched to a MoPac caboose w/MoPac logo on the tender sides.
     

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  3. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    After chasing the UP 3985 from Gray Summit to Sedalia, my brother and I stopped by the State Fairground to pay our respects to the 4516. Since Chris’s visit during 1999, the 4516 has been repainted, and its MP Eagle and Buzz Saw have been removed. It still lacks the “FRISCO” name below the cab window. After being exposed to the elements for the last 52 years, it does not look too bad, although a cover would go a long way toward keeping its appearance.

    When the Frisco completed the dieselization of its locomotive fleet, it placed several 4500’s in storage at Ft Scott, i.e., 4509, 4510,4511, 4516, & 4519. By 1956, it was apparent that there would be no need to recall to duty any of the inactive steam locomotives, and three of the 4500’s were scrapped in Ft Scott. Among them was the 4511; I am unable to determine which other two were scrapped at this time. During 1958, the 4516 was sold for $1.00 to the Missouri State Fair association. Ft Scott shop men cleaned and painted the 4516, which made its last revenue run on November 29, 1951, and the locomotive was turned over to the Katy for delivery to Sedalia and the State Fair Grounds. As Don Wirth points out, this was indeed a great irony to place a Frisco locomotive and caboose in the “back yard” of one of the MP’s major locomotive shops.

    The largest steam locomotives operated by the Katy were in 1920-built Lima L2c class, 2-8-2’s and its 1923-built Lima L2d class, 2-8-2’s; both locomotives weighed 324k lbs; the 4516 weighed 479k lbs, and one wonders what the Katy did, if anything, to its line between Ft Scott and Sedalia in order to handle the much larger 4516. No doubt, it was a slow trip to Sedalia.

    Images 1-3 were taken during 1974, the 4516 stll had its jacket and many of the pipes still had their lagging. The over-fire jets can be seen on the firebox. Someone had liberated the classification lamps, and most of the glazing in the cab was gone. Caboose 734 had been replaced with the 1109.

    Image 4 shows the 4516 on 10-9-2010. The locomotive has been repainted recently, and the stack has been capped. The track under the front part of the locomtive has disappeared under the sod.

    Image 5 shows the distinctive Pyle headlamp and number plate.

    Image 6 depicts the tender sans the MP Buzz Saw

    Images 7-9 show elements of the Locomotive Valve Pilot. The elements include the box, which contains the cam, which is linked to the valve gear, the speedometer "wheel", and the speed recorder in the cab. The device was intended to help the engineer set the right cut-off for a given speed. The speed recorder in the cab recorded the locomotive speed and cutoff on a paper tape.

    Image 10. The Nathan DV-5 lubricator held 26 pints of oil, and was driven from the valve motin on the right side.


    Image 11. The 4500's carried a Ohio Injector Co., T-60, 10,000 gal injector on the fireman's side. The double drawbar, the radial buffer, the stoker housing, and the Franklin boostercan be seen also.


    Image 12. On the right side, the 4500's carried a Coffin feedwater heater pump.

    Image 13 shows the trailer, the Coffin FWH pump,the over-fire jets, and the valve pilot shaft as it snakes its way back to the speed recorder.

    Image 14 shows the Pyle turbo generator, the Oakadee blowdown muffler and separator, which is used in conjection with the Signal Foam Meter. The over-fire jets can be seen too.

    Image 15 shows the Manning, Maxwell & Moore whistle and the Ashton safety valves

    Image 16 shows the stack with its "Friscos-styled smoke lifter", the booster exhaust, and the remnants of the smoke-density lamp.

    Image 16 shows the steam chest sans jacket.
     

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  4. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Frisco.org Supporter

    Nice photo essay Karl! While were chatting about 4500's, do you have any information about one of the 4500's parked for several months up around Lockwood?? (Or Greenfield etc??) somewhere around the 1959-60 period?
    I saw it there in a trip on tr. 108, but I can't remember the year?? I had heard it was being transferred either to or from Ft. Scott and there was some kind of problem and they had to leave it there for a while. Sketchy information I know, but it attracted attention and was unusual because it was so long after diselization??

    Thanks, Tom
     
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  5. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    That was probably the 4519 going to Springfield to be cut up. It was around that time frame. She was my Dad's favorite of the coal burners.
    Good to see some paint on the '16 Karl and the removal of the obnoxious buzz saw. Also has the obligitory white tires. People just can't resist doing that for some reason.
    Wish it was up here at the museum.
     
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  6. SAFN SAAP

    SAFN SAAP Member

    I'm sorry, but leaving a steam locomotive in such condition as that, is a criminal act. They are part of history and every surviving unit should be restored to active operating duty under modern requirements. I'd rather see our tax dollars go to fix these beauties than to go to some bridge to now where, wasteful political benefit, or some red tape.... ah alright, enough of the soap boxin'...
     
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  7. U-3-b

    U-3-b Member Frisco.org Supporter

    As much as I think all of us steam fans would like to see that happen, it ain't never going to happen. Politics is a business. I do hope that they put a cover over her sometime soon.

    Steve
     
  8. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    And if the political hacks aren't going to be able to pay the police, the firemen, the teachers, etc, they aint gunna take care of old steam engines in a park.

    Our beautiful National Parks are even falling into bad shape.

    Sad, but true.

    Ken
     
  9. SAFN SAAP

    SAFN SAAP Member

    I know, but really how much money is wasted on stupid stuff? Even at 500,000 to repair one engine, that is pittance in comparison to all the stupid stuff we shell money out for.
     
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  10. U-3-b

    U-3-b Member Frisco.org Supporter

    If some politician saw that they could get more than a few votes out of fixing her up, it would be done. Stupid, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

    Steve
     
  11. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Nice photos, Karl. We missed the MSF this summer due to vacation, but 4516 appears nicely spruced up from when we last saw her in August 2009.

    It's always seemed quite incongruous to see SL-SF motive power enshrined in a MoP/Katy town, but I'm glad its there.

    The Nathan lubricator is intriguing. I need to research this gadget further online. Can you or anyone else advise: was this standard equipment on most 40s-era Frisco motive power, or was it exclusive to the 4500-class?

    Best Regards,
     
  12. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    These Nathan lubricators found their way onto most engines from the '30s on. We installed a second one on 1522. They are good lubricators.
     
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  13. I don't think the whistle in photo #15 is an MM&M whistle, because it has a cast iron bowl & valve. I have an same exact whistle in my collection, and have been told it's a shop built "Frisco Hancock". Apparently, they copied the Hancock bell portion, and cast them themselves, and either cast or went commercial with the valve and bowl. Every Hancock (or MM&M) whistle I've seen has an all brass shallow bowl instead of this deeper, cast iron version. Also the the bell portion is not as finely cast or finished as a true Hancock. Does anyone have any firm info, or photos of the "shop built's" ?
     
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