4-8-2 - 1500 Class Series - Locomotive Freight And Passenger - Paint Colors, Liveries, Schemes

Currently, the roof of the Frisco 4-8-2 SLSF 1529 is black.

I have no color pictures from when it was in operation.

Does anyone know if the roof of the cab was ever red on the SLSF 1529?

Also, how do I convert the coal tender on my HO-scale 4-8-2 Bachmann Spectrum to oil?

 

Chris

Define huge. Do you have an "open flatbed" scanner?

 

While at the Frisco museum, Alan showed me a Mechanical Department document with the Frisco Mechanical Department Color "Chart".

I copied by hand the contents of the document, and Alan promised to send me photocopies of the original. He never did, so I am glad that I spent the time to capture the information. Perhaps this is the same information that appeared in the Frisco Newsletter.

Here is the official "scheme" set forth during 1945. As Chris noted, photographic evidence can be at odds with these data. It may just be a matter of time frame. No doubt, the austerity of the war years influenced the color scheme.

Mechanical Department
1945​

Passenger Locomotives
Cab exterior: Black
Roof: Black
Frames, main and truck: Black
Jacket: Black
Running Gear, including wheels: Black
Cab Interior: Black
Cab Sash: Black
Smokebox: Light Gray Graphite Finish
Rods, main and side: polished and oiled
Tires: Black
Running Boards: Black
Lettering and Numbers: Gold

Passenger Tenders
Exterior: Black
Underframe: Black
Truck frames and wheels: Black
Grab irons and steps: Black
Lettering: Gold

Freight Locomotives
Cab exterior: Black
Roof: Black
Jacket: Black
Smokebox: Black
Wheels: Black
Cab interior: Black
Cab sash: Black
Rods, main and side: Polished and oiled
Letters and numbers: White

Freight Tenders
Exterior: Black
Underframe: Black
Truck frames and wheels: Black
Grab irons and steps: Black
Lettering: White

Passenger Locomotives – 4500 Class
Cab Exterior: Zephyr Blue
Roof: Black
Frames, main and truck: black
Running gear including wheels: Black
Jacket: Zephyr Blue
Cab interior: Zephyr Blue
Cab sash: Zephyr Blue
Smokebox: Light Gray, Graphite finish
Rods, main and side: Polished and oiled
Tires: Black
Running Boards, Aluminum Gray
Letters: Aluminum Gray
Numbers: Zephyr Blue on Gray

Passenger Tenders – 4500 Class
Exterior: Zephyr Blue
Underframe: Black
Wheels: Black
Grab irons: Black
Steps: Black

Firefly Locomotives (Stream Styled Locomotives - KEB)
Cab: Zephyr Blue
Roof: Black
Frames, main and truck: Black
Running gear, including wheels: Black
Jacket: Zephyr Blue
Cab Interior: Zephyr Blue
Cab Sash: Zephyr Blue
Smokebox: Light Gray, Graphite finish
Rods, main and side: Polished and oiled
Tires: Black
Running Boards: Stainless Steel
Letters and Numbers: Zephyr Blue on Stainless Steel

Firefly Tenders
Exterior: Zephyr Blue
Underframe: Black
Truck frame: Black
Wheels: Black
Grab irons: Black
Steps: Black

Firefly Locomotives – Streamlined
Cab Exterior: Zephyr Blue
Roof: Zephyr Blue
Streamlined Jacket: Zephyr Blue
Frames, main and truck: Black
Running gear, including wheels: Black
Cab interior: Zephyr Blue
Cab Sash Zephyr Blue
Rods, main and side: Polished and oiled
Tires: Black
Running Boards: Stainless Steel with Red pinstripe, top and bottom
Letters and Numbers: Zephyr Blue on Stainless Steel

Passenger Equipment
Body including sash, steps, trucks and underbody equipment: Pullman Green
Roof, grab irons, underframe, and diaphrams: Black
Letters and Numbers: Gold

Streamlined Passenger Coaches
Bodies, steps, and grab irons: Zephyr Blue
Center band and sash: Dove Gray
Trucks, underframe and diaphrams: Black
Letters and Numbers: Gold

Box Cars
Underframe: Black
Sides and ends: Box Car Red
Metal roof/Wood roof, running board, sill steps and grab irons: Box Car Red
Trucks: Black
Lettering White

Stock Cars
Underframe: Black
Sides and ends: Box Car Red
Metal Roof: Black
Wood Roof: Box Car Red
Running board, sill steps, grab irons: Box Car Red
Trucks: Black
Lettering: White

Flat Cars
Underframe, interior, side and end sills, center sills, cross bearers, transoms: Black
Exterior, side and end: Box Car Red
Sill Steps: Box Car Red
Trucks: Black
Lettering: White

Gondola and Hopper Cars
Underframe, sides, and ends: Black
Grab irons and sill steps: Black
Trucks: Black
Lettering: White

Covered Hopper Cars
Body and trucks: Black
Grab irons and sill steps: Black
Underframe: Black
Lettering: White

Work Equipment
Body Exterior, side, roof, ends, and doors: Box Car Red
Steps: Box Car Red
Trucks: Black
Lettering: White

Derricks
Body Exterior and interior: Black
Grab irons, and sill steps: Black
Underframe: Black
Lettering: White

Cabin Cars
Body exterior, sides, and ends: Box Car Red
End platforms: Box Car Red
Steps, risers, step sides: Box Car Red
Grab irons, platforms guard rails, life rods: Black
Hand rails, hand holds: Black
Steel superstructure cupola: New Standard Primer Red
Smokestack: Box Car Red
Lettering: White

 

This was the same information in the chart published in the Model Railroader in 1946.

The "gold" lettering was the "imitation" or "DuLux Gold", DuPont's trade word for "deluxe", a yellow-ochre or moderate yellow-orange. Not a metallic gold. The same color that was used on passenger car lettering through to the end of service.

The chart as published in MR was in an early Frisco Modelers Information Group (FMIG) newsletter, Number 3. That is where I first saw it. I later found a copy of the old MR it appeared in.

Tom

Edit: I had missed Chris' post that the Frisco color chart was in FMIG NL #3--I added that above.

 

When I was buying Frisco engine snapshots from Arthur Johnson, he pointed out that the oil burning steam engines' smokeboxes and fireboxes were a lighter color of graphite.

These were almost a silver or aluminum color. While the smoke and fireboxes on coal burners were a darker "charcoal" color. This ran true in most cases.

Also, the "passenger" oil burners' lettering and numerals were painted imitation gold, while both oil and coal "freight" engines' lettering and numbers were white.

In the Frisco Museum edition of Joe Collias' Frisco Power, page 309, are examples of the lettering colors.

2-8-2 SLSF 4207 has a black smokebox and firebox with white lettering.
4-6-2 SLSF 1012 has yellow "gold" lettering. Although the smokebox is rather dark, it is probably just dirty from smoke and grime.

Tom

 

I do not remember much about the cab roofs, but I do recall a "dull" red on a few engines.

I used to think they were just rusty, but that was before I had learned the cab roofs were sometimes painted red.

As a kid, say in 1947 or 1948, I used to see a dead line of about six engines on the north side of the Springfield North Yards. These engines were just east of the Jefferson Avenue foot bridge. The whole line was viewable from the bridge above and I cannot recall that any of them having red cab roofs.

I think I would have noticed the cab roof color, since the cabs were boarded up with fairly new lumber. The cab roofs and the rest of the engines were a faded gray-black. I do remember two numbers in that line, SLSF 1523 and SLSF 1526.

Tom

 

Since I am planning on modeling my 4-8-2 to the 1529's latest operational state, post-1945, I am going to leave the roof black.

I just wanted to make sure it was not changed from red to black since its retirement and donation to the city of Amory, MS. Thanks for all the help with the roof. I still have not decided if I am going to tackle a tender conversion.

If I get more specific "how-to" information, I may give it more consideration.

 

Tom,

I certainly agree that later the passenger engines were lettered using Dulux Gold.

But in 1945, would they not still have the Greek fretwork decoration?

And at that time was it not a metallic gold paint that was used?

I am only asking because it is an assumption I have always made, not because I have a factual basis for thinking it.

Gordon

 

Gordon,

Just going by color photographs, for example on page 313 in Frisco Power, the Frisco Museum edition, the engine numbers, lettering, pin striping and passenger car lettering are all in what I would call "imitation" gold and not metallic gold. I think those photographs are from the 1940s.

In the book Terminal Railroad Of St. Louis In Color by Greg Stout, page nine, there is a picture of the little Frisco Pacific 4-6-2 SLSF 1045. That engine seems to be lettered and numbered in the same color.

My opinion is that color was used for passenger car lettering for a long time, maybe since the 1920s, judging from black and shite photographs. All the lettering and numbers in the black and white engine photographs appear to me to be a solid and not a metallic color.

But that is just my opinion.

Tom