1401 Full Lounge, nee Oklahoma City

Discussion in 'Heavyweight Cars' started by Karl, Nov 19, 2007.

  1. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Mid America Car in Kansas City could always be counted on to have some sort of treasure stashed on the the property. So it was during June of 1990, when I spotted the former Frisco Lounge, 1401. As I recall, the car was owned by someone connected with the Midland RR of Baldwin City, KS, and it was at Mid America for a little work. I rode the Midland RR during August of this summer, but I didn't see the 1401 among the rolling stock.
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 16, 2007
  2. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    Karl--Had you seen the old post by John Suscheck (sp??) from 3-15-2002 in the "Diners" thread (Sorry, I don't know how to link these posts together)? He was saying he was connected with "ozarkmountainrailcar.com" and they had purchased that car, indending to refurbish it! I only joined this chat board in August, so I don't know what if anything else may have transpired regarding the car. FYI.

    Tom
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2007
  3. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    Re: 1401 Photos (for Karl)

    Tying in to some earlier posts, here are three photos of Frisco lounge car #1401 (by Jerry Moore, Pat Coughlin collection) of a Shriner's special at Tulsa ca. 1964 (Edit should be 1961)(note Shriner tailsign). These cars (1401 & 1402) were big heavyweight jewels that were the 1930's luxury lounge cars of the steam era Meteor and painted in the Meteor blue/gray scheme in the 1940's. When the lightweight Meteor cars were delivered, the cars lost their names ("Oklahoma City" and "Tulsa") and became 1401 and 1402. They were painted in the red and silver (or red and "gray") scheme for a while in the 1950's and were the back-up lounges for the Meteor (Texas Special too). In the sixties they had been repainted to green and were parked in the back row of extra cars at the Springfield depot. I always admired them, but never thought to snap a picture.

    Tom

    PS: If anyone has more photos of 1401-1402, I'd sure like to see 'em!!
    (Edit: These pictures are probably from 1961--per Tubastogo's comment above)
     

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  4. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Would have loved to watch the world go from a hvy-wt Frisco Lounge. Thanks
     
  5. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    ...not to mention checking out the outside braced boxcars such as the one in the background of the last photo! Thanks for sharing, Tom.
     
  6. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Looks like the train in that last pic was full of St Louis Shriners. Wonder where they were off to?

    Alhambra Grotto?

    Ken
     
  7. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    I tried to date these pictures exactly (and thus figure out where they were headed), by reading the Shrine officer's name on the drumhead. I think that could be determined if someone knew the Shrine chapter's officers.
    There were a couple of other cars visable in that series of photos: 1102 and I believe one of the 750's chair cars--the Shriner cars may have been tacked on to a regular train?? I'm not very sure of the geography of the Tulsa depot, so I can't tell by the shadows if it's morning or afternoon?? Any thoughts?

    Tom

    PS: I'll go and read the Shrine drumhead with a magnifier and post it here in a little while. The drumhead lettering reads: "MOOLAH TEMPLE, St. Louis, MO" and smaller letters: "Illustrious Potentate Walter C. Ploeser"
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 10, 2008
  8. tubastogo

    tubastogo Member

    Regarding the Moolah Special, the year was 1961, when Walter Ploesser was Potentate of Moolah Temple. The train was in Tulsa for a Shriner's convention, and had probably been part of one of the regularly scheduled trains.
     
  9. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    Great to learn that date! I had originally thought 1964 because those photos (undated) were among others from '64. Thanks.

    Tom
     
  10. gbmott

    gbmott Member

    Going back to Karl's original post, do we infer that the car still survives, and if so where? Incidentally, I photographed either 1401 or 1402 on an employees' special departing Springfield for St. Louis in either 1963 or '64. I recall there was a single E-unit, about three lightweight chair cars and the HW lounge on the rear.
     
  11. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    Gordon--Could you post that photo? In the "Trackside Around St. Louis" book (page 104, bottom) there's a photo of one of those lounges (1401-1402) in the distance in the red and silver scheme.

    Tom
     
  12. gbmott

    gbmott Member

    By golly, Tom, you may be right. I've looked at that picture many times and always assumed that the car was the Edwin W. Moore, the Katy HW lounge that was a regular on the third set of Texas Special equipment, but the window spacing certainly matches the 1401-2. What is surprising to me, though, is that neither of those cars ever shows up on the list of Frisco cars that got painted red-and-silver. Also, the photo is dated 5/30/57 yet the passenger equipment status report of 11/1/56 that we have both seen specifically lists both 1401 and 1402 as being painted green and likewise does not include them in the list headed "Conventional Cars Painted Silver and Red to Resemble Streamlined Cars", though it does list the Edwin W. Moore (not sure why they listed an MKT car, but they did).

    This needs some more study! As for posting my photo, all I have to do is find it! :confused:

    Gordon
     
  13. gbmott

    gbmott Member

    Tom

    Well, I've tried everything I know to make the car in the photo something other than 1401 or 1402 but I've failed miserably. That creates a huge question, though, of WHY??? All I can think of is that they were already planning the withdrawal of the round-end diner lounges from the Meteor to send them back to P-S to be rebuilt into a mid-train configuration and they were thinking they would run both a 600-series diner and 1401-2 lounge cars while the 1550 and 1551 were away. As far as I know they never painted any of the diners and by the time they actually sent the two obs away in 1959 the Texas Special had been discontinued on the SLSF so they actually substituted the Alexander Doniphan and 1506, a diner-lounge, but no separate lounge car.

    Anyone else have any thoughts about this??

    Gordon
     
  14. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    In the 60's they (1401-1402) were always parked at the Springfield depot. I think they were kept there for the football and other specials (like the Shriner's below) and back-ups for the Meteor's chair-buffet-lounges (and maybe the diner-observations too ??). Around 1961, there were HW diners, HW Pullmans as well as the ex-Texas Special 1350 and 650 parked there. Every so often, when I'd drop down there, they'd be shuffled around and one or more of these cars would be gone for a day or two. I'd would love to have known where the cars went...

    Tom
     
  15. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    Gordon--The rebuilding of 1550 and 1551 to blunt end/mid-train was done by the Frisco at Springfield.

    Tom
     
  16. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    Does anyone have any other photos or slides of the HW lounges 1401 or 1402? I wish there were a company paint shop photo in existence of one of these cars in the red and silver scheme!!

    Tom
     
  17. Midmo1

    Midmo1 Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Re: 1401 Photos (for Karl)

    Hi guys...so I'm making these red decals....for streamlined cars....so there was NO streamilned diner with the numbers 1401 or 1402??? These would be H/W cars...painted that way????...1550 Tulsa and 1551 Okee City where squared off s/l cars???....how did the first 1401 OKC become the new1551?...thats the info I have....just a number change for the "new" car?

    Thanx
    Ted
     
  18. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    Midmo--The cars were HW full lounges, not diners--See info on painting, re-naming (re-numbering) and photos in this thread below--I think all your questions are answered.

    Tom
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 5, 2008
  19. Midmo1

    Midmo1 Member Frisco.org Supporter

    OK
    Someone was nice enough to send me a list of the S/L cars...and on it was 1551 Oklahoma City...the confusion I'm having is 2 different cars with the same name....one a H/W lounge...one a obs/diner/lounge,s/l, for the Meteor....
    Thanx for the info

    Ted
     
  20. TAG1014

    TAG1014 Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    The streamline lightweight (red and stainless steel fluted) Meteor observation-lounge-diners were 1550 (Tulsa) and 1551 (Oklahoma City), but the earlier heavyweight lounges (from the 1930's that ran on the steam era Meteor and are pictured and discussed on this thread) were Oklahoma City (1401) and Tulsa (1402). 1401 and 1402 weren't originally numbered--they gave up their names and received numbers when the streamlined 1550 and 1551 were delivered. The altogether different Texas Special sleeper-observation-lounge cars were SLSF's Joseph Pulitzer (1350) and M-K-T's 1400, the Stephen F. Austin. The 1550 and 1551 were configured differently than the 1350 and Katy 1400.

    Tom
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 5, 2008

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