Frisco / QA&P crane kitbash questions

Discussion in 'Maintenance of Way' started by skyraider, Jan 26, 2023.

  1. skyraider

    skyraider Member

    Today my next neighbor gave me this crane. He found it an an Amazon returns store and thought of me since my layout is HO. This is obviously a log loader. It's got the big toy knob on the right to raise and lower the boom. That and the lever on the boom will be removed. The log mechanism will be removed.

    Should I remove the skid on the actual flatcar that it's attached to and mount the crane directly to the flatcar deck?

    What color should I paint it--yellow with a black base? Silver? It's not a true prototype of anything that the Frisco had, but I would just like to make it resemble something the Frisco used in MOW service. If my layout was anyplace but West Central TX, I'd modify it and have it loading pulpwood cars, but there's not much pulpwood out here!!

    Consider this a group project. Any and all suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

    IMG_6247.JPG IMG_6248.JPG
     
  2. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Shorten the flat car by sectioning it in the middle. Mount the crane cab to the shortened flat. Paint all silver.
     
  3. skyraider

    skyraider Member

    Thanks Keith--that's a terrific idea. So far I haven't figured out how to remove the skid. It seems to be glued or screwed to the flatcar. It should come off, and then I can proceed with what you suggested.

    What do you think---black base and yellow body like the American cranes?
     
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  4. mark

    mark Staff Member Staff Member

    Paul,

    As an alternative, recommend removing the wood skid and replace with a tracked, or possible wheeled, underframe.

    With this option, an independent crane maximizes its flexibility in maintenance of way service, as a load on a flat car or gondola, at your pipe yard or other scenic element.

    Other options for a different look include the following.
    - Removing the large steam exhaust stack, replacing it with an exhaust pipe and muffler.
    - Adding cab mounted angle iron boom support structure with associated rigging.
    - Boom cars, tenders, associated support rail cars.
    - Related support and transport vehicles (fuel or water trucks, flat bed trailers, etc.)
    - Different lifting mechanisms and tools - boom lattice extensions, jibs, luffing jibs, clam shell bucket, magnet with boom side mounted electric cable line reel, grapple claw, drag line, pile driver.
    - Accessories - hook(s), pulleys, sheaves, load spreader bar(s), slings, spare wire rope cable reels, work lights, loading/unloading ramps, counter weights, outriggers and blocking, cutting and welding gas cylinders with hoses.
    Many of these items can either be attached to or part of the crane or used as separate load or scene enhancements.

    Frisco cranes appeared in the following paint schemes.
    - All black.
    - Silver cab, black underframe and with silver or black boom.
    - Yellow cab, black underframe and boom.
    - Lettering and heralds were a contrasting color, typically white on black, black on silver or yellow. In some limited cases red lettering was used for special emphasis "Danger", "Watch Swing", "Diesel Fuel", etc.

    If in private ownership or service, the color, lettering, herald and slogan options expand much further.

    Manufacturer lettering or heralds were often also identified on cranes. Depending on the era and manufacturer either cast medallions or painted lettering were used. Typical placement locations included on the cab side or end and/or metal plates attached to the boom sides. Typical examples included "American", "Bucyrus", "Erie" and "Bucyrus-Erie (after 1927).

    Many of these changes would result in a crane with a different look that could be used independently of or in addition to any railcar.

    Hope this helps.

    Thanks!

    Mark
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2023
  5. gjslsffan

    gjslsffan Staff Member Staff Member

    That is an interesting piece of equipment there Paul. How far will the boom raise? Not sure how I would proceed with that. As constructed I see no provision to raise or lower the boom, as in no cables and such to do so, I suppose some can be made to look the part. A real one would be severely limited as to what could be picked up side to side as no supports to keep the car from tipping over, the boom does not extend past the car on one end so no help there either. some simple outriggers could be made I suppose. One could make some dogs that would clamp to the rails, like on tie cranes, but they would not suffice for any moderate to heavy lifting. Making the crane tram-able atop the car is an interesting option, but again you would need to find some way to clamp the crane to the car for a fore mentioned reasons. Mounting the crane to the center of the car would at least get the boom past the ends for picking up something in front or behind the outfit. I think maybe I would take the crane off the flat car all together, make a wheeled base for it., or even make it permanent in a pipe yard or similar for loading stuff onto flat cars or trucks.
    You sure get yourself into some very interesting projects.
     
  6. skyraider

    skyraider Member

    Keith, Mark and Tom: thanks for the ideas. It was given to me by my next door neighbor. It reminds me of an HO version of something Lionel would produce.

    * There's a big round knob on the right side of the cab (already removed) to raise and lower the boom.

    *There's a toy looking lever that actuates a metal rod to open and close the log jaws (also already removed)

    * The log jaws are sized for O scale...also removed

    * The stake pockets stick out over a scale foot and are about a scale 6" thick (already filed down)

    *each piece in the boom lattice work is WAY to thick. Other than replace the entire boom, there's not a practical way to fix that

    Anyway, since it was a gift from my neighbor who really loves my train room, I need to do something with it so it's on the layout. The two ideas that come to mind from all of your input are:

    1) cut the center section out of the flat car; remove the crane from the skid and mount it to the center of the flat car; create some rigging and put a hook on it; and use it for a light lifting MOW crane (maybe silver and black)

    2) remove the skid and crane; repaint the flatcar and just use it as a flat car; set the skid on the mountainous portion of the layout next to a siding with the pulpwood car on the siding as a pulpwood loading scene.

    Thanks for the ideas!!!
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2023
  7. skyraider

    skyraider Member

    OK...the crane is completely disassembled (what a poorly constructed model); molded on grabs have been removed; pulley's and shafts have been fabricated; the latticework on the crane boom has been filed and shaved because the individual pieces were too heavy; the skid will be the actual flatcar. It's barely long enough for two trucks to fit underneath. Don't know if I will leave the steam exhaust stack or cut it off and fabricate a diesel style stack.

    The overhead structure has been designed for the pulleys and cables to raise and lower the boom. It won't operate, but will at least look plausible. The flat car will probably be the boom tender.

    IMG_6254.JPG
     
  8. skyraider

    skyraider Member

    A couple of more photos...

    IMG_20230130_151120735_HDR.jpg IMG_20230130_151124128.jpg
     
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  9. skyraider

    skyraider Member

    It's amazing how a small project can take a life of it's own. Since it's cold all week (at least cold for TX--daily high of 24), I just worked around the house and made some progress on the crane.

    As it stands:

    diesel exhaust instead of steam (per suggestion on the forum)

    filed down lattice work in boom to make it not look so toy-like.

    got rid of non-existent rigging and added numerous pulleys for rigging for lifting and raising and lowering boom

    added lifting supports on roof (in real life they would attach inside)

    got rid of molded grabs and added free standing grabs at cab doors

    modified skid to become the actual car deck and installed trucks. Still have to figure out how to mount couplers and shim them to height

    It's almost ready for paint. But that won't happen until my shop is significantly warmer than 40 degrees (that's all the space heater will do). My wife gave me a spool of fine dark gray thread that looks very much like cable.

    Finally, since this is sort of a joke MOW car, the manufacturer name on the boom is going to be Tonka.

    IMG_6255.JPG IMG_6256.JPG IMG_6257.JPG IMG_6258.JPG tonka reverse 2.jpg
     
  10. skyraider

    skyraider Member

    Tom Holley said to not only put Tonka on the boom but put Powered by Briggs and Stratton on the cab. I like it!!!!!
     
  11. skyraider

    skyraider Member

    After looking at a bunch of boom tender photos, I decided to put a toolhouse and fuel tank on the tender. There's plenty of room, so why not...

    The easiest method for me to make curved ends on tanks is to put a plug in both ends, fill it with spackling compound and file / sand to the shape you want after it's thoroughly dry. There's not a proper compound curve I know of to fill the end of the tank (in this case, a piece of a CO2 cartridge).

    The platform for the crane is basically done--except for paint, rigging and decals. The end sills had to be scratch built out of styrene pieces.

    IMG_20230203_162106578.jpg IMG_20230203_162111933.jpg IMG_20230203_162120641.jpg
     
  12. skyraider

    skyraider Member

    Got a bit done on the tool house and the diesel tank. Still need to mount the brake wheel and fabricate the mounting for the tank. Cut off the molded grabirons and put on free standing grabirons; cut off the stake pockets under the toolhouse; etc. etc. The tool house is completely scratch built. The sliding / rolling doors came from a picture in the ATSF MOW equipment book.

    IMG_6260.JPG IMG_6261.JPG IMG_6262.JPG
     
  13. skyraider

    skyraider Member

    It's about ready for paint. Added the end brake detail (removed the brake wheel from the side of the flatcar and moved it to the end); dome, vents and fuel line to the fuel tank; stirrups on the crane base. Tom Holley gave me tons of ideas on this project. Thanks, also, to Keith and the others who have contributed ideas. It has definitely been a team effort. IMG_6275.JPG IMG_6277.JPG IMG_6278.JPG
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2023
  14. skyraider

    skyraider Member

    The weather was good enough to paint today, so the basic stuff is done. Lots of weathering; a few detail parts; and the rigging still to go. You can't tell, but the windows are even glazed.

    IMG_6279.JPG IMG_6280.JPG IMG_6281.JPG IMG_6282.JPG
     
  15. WindsorSpring

    WindsorSpring Member

    This was quite a transformation! What does your friend, the donor, think of it?
     
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  16. skyraider

    skyraider Member

    Thanks for asking. Unfortunately, he's in the hospital and not doing well. He went in for back surgery, that turned into some other stuff, and now he's sedated and in ICU. Hopefully, he makes a full recovery.

    He worked for the AT&SF after he got out of the Marines during Vietnam and ended up as something like assistant road foreman in Lubbock, TX. As a result, he really enjoys coming over and looking at the layout.
     
  17. Sirfoldalot

    Sirfoldalot Frisco.org Supporter Frisco.org Supporter

    PAUL - That is some excellent work on a remodel of what was an otherwise a "toy looking" piece of equipment.

    I will say a prayer for your friend today ... I wish him the best for a speedy recovery!
     
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  18. skyraider

    skyraider Member

    Thanks Sherrel. What happened was--and this is something that seems to occur with scary frequency these days--he developed a systemic staff infection and became what they call septic. Not good. God has healed me numerous times, so we are praying for a speedy and complete recovery!!!
     
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  19. skyraider

    skyraider Member

    Getting close on the crane...Still needs outriggers; more details on the tender; get the hook to hang straight (rigging cranes isn't my idea of a good time!!!); some weathering and the Briggs and Stratton and Tonka logos added. We bought a new lamp to add a little light for modeling and photographs in the railroad room. I now need a new white balance in the camera. A guy on the trainboard forum gave me an idea of some pivoting outriggers--one on each side that are attached to the side sills. It may be a small enough crane that I just ignore the outriggers. Tom Holley has given me tons of great ideas, and all of them have been incorporated.

    IMG_6287.JPG IMG_6288.JPG IMG_6293.JPG
     

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