Decal Special Run

Discussion in 'General' started by Joe Lovett, Jan 15, 2016.

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What locomotive decals do you want to see next?

Poll closed Mar 31, 2017.
  1. GP-7L (133)

    12 vote(s)
    66.7%
  2. VO-1000 (38)

    2 vote(s)
    11.1%
  3. RS-1 (11)

    5 vote(s)
    27.8%
  4. RS-2 (4)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. S-2 (6)

    3 vote(s)
    16.7%
  6. F units A and B (153)

    8 vote(s)
    44.4%
  7. U-25B (24)

    6 vote(s)
    33.3%
  8. H-10-44 (17)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. 44 Ton (9)

    4 vote(s)
    22.2%
  10. GP-35 (24)

    5 vote(s)
    27.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Joe Lovett

    Joe Lovett Member

    Do we need to find someone else to do the Frisco Decals, in other words start all over?

    Joe
     
  2. Coonskin

    Coonskin Member

    At this point I do not feel I want to spearhead another attempt. Some one else is welcome to try.
     
  3. rayw

    rayw Member

    I talked with Hubert Mask of Mask Island Decals at the St. Louis RPM a couple of weeks ago. He expressed interest in doing decals for the various units in the Frisco black and yellow scheme. I’ll follow up with him and as soon as I have some info I’ll post it here.

    Ray
     
  4. tmfrisco

    tmfrisco Member Frisco.org Supporter

    That would be great because his decals are very good. I have used a couple of them, and having more available would be fantastic.
    Terry
     
    Joe Lovett likes this.
  5. Joe Lovett

    Joe Lovett Member

    Ray, please contact Mask Island Decals again with a project plan for them to make the Frisco Decals. Would you want to be the lead for the Frisco website on this project?

    Andre, will you be able to test the decals when we find a new manufacturing facility?
     
  6. Coonskin

    Coonskin Member

    Does anyone have a website for the above mentioned Mask Decals?

    Joe:

    I don't have any Frisco models any where near ready to decal at this point, and don't foresee having such in the near future. (I currently right in the middle of finishing up my dedicated hobby building along with other commitments.)

    I'm sure I can contribute to the effort in some way. I still need HO scale Frisco b&y stripe sets... several. I can supply hi-rez scans of the defunct Oddballs set as a guideline for the artwork, etc.
     
    Joe Lovett likes this.
  7. rayw

    rayw Member

    Joe:

    I'm willing to take the lead on this project if that's okay with everyone. Artwork shouldn't be a problem because he has someone he works with and I think I have someone willing to help me on this end. I also have models I can use for tests. I'll get in touch with him and let everyone know what I find out.

    Ray
     
    Joe Lovett and Ozarktraveler like this.
  8. Joe Lovett

    Joe Lovett Member

    Andre, what is the email address to Black Cat Decals and who were you talking to? I'll try one more time to contact them.

    Ray, please continue the Mask Island Decals project. We don't want to drop it at this time.

    Joe
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2016
  9. timothy_cannon

    timothy_cannon Member Frisco.org Supporter

  10. Joe Lovett

    Joe Lovett Member

    I emailed Black Cat Decals yesterday and they said they needed more information but I'm not sure what they want. Will go to the library today and post the email so we can get the information they need. This project is alive and well.

    Joe
     
  11. Joe Lovett

    Joe Lovett Member

    It's been eight months since I started this thread and we are about to have our first run of Frisco decals.

    Joe
     
  12. gjslsffan

    gjslsffan Staff Member Staff Member

    Are these screen printed or from an ALPs printer? I could not find out on the website.
     
  13. I talked to him there about the same thing. He was interested and said it was already on his "potential" list. Demand being the biggest factor. Hopefully with some contact from the group here it can be pushed along.
     
  14. gjslsffan

    gjslsffan Staff Member Staff Member

    I'm telling you folks there is a huge difference between ALPS/OKI or similar type printers as opposed to screen printing, for yellow decals.

    Andre did his best to ascertain the best decals, as he has been in the trenches on this for more years than I am sure he wants to admit. He still is marked up and pulling a throttle envisioning his retirement as well he should. Hope he and I can meet for an adult beverage one of these days.
    When you get a sample. I would like to see it first hand.
    Otherwise I am withdrawing my initial commitment to buy.
     
  15. Coonskin

    Coonskin Member

    Black Cat was to screen print the decals. Also, the owner requested I use his personal (or another) email and not the "info" email. That is the email address to which I received no response in my previous attempts to receive a project update.

    For general information: I did not expect nor insist that Black Cat "copy" Oddballs Decals, only that the scan was to be used as an idea sheet to see how that set was composed/etc.

    The bottom line is: Whomever does the decals will need DIMENSIONS and DATA. That, I drew a blank on here at this forum, though I made the plea for same to come forward. So, if existing (if defunct) decals will not be used as a reference point, then we have no hard data that can be forwarded to any decal manufacturer on which to create a new decal set, IMHO.

    I too, will need to see a sample of the proposed product before I commit well over $100 to an order for same. Been burnt big time once (Oddballs to the tune of $500+), not going to be burnt again.
     
    gjslsffan likes this.
  16. Joe Lovett

    Joe Lovett Member

    Here is the email I sent to Black Cat Decals and their response...

    Hi my name is Joe Lovett and I'm interested in your business. We would like to have you manufacture some Frisco decals for the black and yellow diesels that Frisco had. We are interested in HO and N scale decals. Please contact me with information on how to order. We have a set of Oddball decals that can be used as a guide for artwork and color description.

    Joe Lovett
    Frisco.org

    Their reply was...

    Joe, I have been corresponding with Andre Ming on this subject. I have a scan of the Oddballs set but no other information. Although good as a reference it would be unethical to copy somebody's work and I don't want to perpetuate any mistakes he has made. I still need more information. Below are the highlights of our correspondence so far.

    Andre:
    I can work from photos but a paint and lettering diagram would be great. My shopping list of things include:
    -a square on of FRISCO. Knowing the height and length is information that can be derived from various sources.
    -I need to see all of the numbers ie- 1234567890 so I can get them right. I noticed there are 2 different "fonts" for the numbers.
    -Is the Frisco shield on the nose Yellow and what size is it?
    I would expect the set to letter 2 or 3 different diesels limited by FRISCO's and numbers. (I see 2 sizes of FRISCOs and 2 different number fonts) Ball park retail price will be $6-$9 US. I'll sell the first bulk order at wholesale (probably $5-$7). I won't start drawing until June so I won't need the information till then. I have several other projects in the pipeline.
    Allen

    You said:
    "The print run will be 250 but seeing as the left side of the geeps/switchers is the same as the right (mostly) a set will consist of 2 identical sheets thus we'll be down to 125 sets."
    "So we're talking about a final product consisting of TWO sheets, correct?
    Yes, but at this time I'm not sure how big they will end up as. I'm hoping to fit them into one of my standard envelope (5 1/2 X 3 1/8")"

    We're also talking about a final product that has the same SCOPE of the Oddballs set? (i.e. Essentially the same variety/ability to decal basically all variations of the stripped units as did the Oddballs set).
    Yes.
    You also said...
    "When they arrive from the printer then you can send a bulk order and I'll ship within a week of your check. It will become a stock item after that."

    "Okay, so far I have commitments for something like 50-60 sets. Does this mean we only need to hit our commitment number of 50-60 sets, and you'll absorb the rest for store stock?"
    Yes

    Next
    I pay about $50 for a custom colour so we can do any color you want.

    So is that added to the cost of the sets over the 125 run or do we pay that up front?

    No, that will be included. It just makes sense to do everything we want at once rather than HO one run then N scale two months later. I assume there will be 10-20 who will pop up and a couple of O scale after that. I just wanted you to know how my costing is arrived at. For example CPR has a beaver shield on their equipment. I drew it with 7 different colors ($50 X 7 = $350 extra) so I printed every shield in every scale I could think of on one sheet. Parts of that sheet get inserted with the steam and diesel locomotives, passenger cars, express trucks in any scale. This isn't that extreme.

    End of email.

    The problem I have is trying to figure out who is saying what.

    Joe
     
  17. timothy_cannon

    timothy_cannon Member Frisco.org Supporter

    The last set I bought from him was for CPR diesels with script lettering in O scale. They were screen printed and SHOULD letter two locos. The cost was $25.00 a set. Very nice decals. The only complaint I had was delivery time. I can order stuff from Germany and it gets here sooner than his decals which are from Canada. Still, IMHO, this is probably the best route to go unless the cost is getting close to a Microscale special run. I would not waste my $ on any yellow decal printed on an Alps or OKI printer.
     
  18. Coonskin

    Coonskin Member

    Joe: Yes, you cc'd me that correspondence. Thank you.

    I can help you understand who said what:

    Black Cat Decals (BCD) said this:

    "Andre:
    I can work from photos but a paint and lettering diagram would be great. My shopping list of things include:
    -a square on of FRISCO. Knowing the height and length is information that can be derived from various sources.
    -I need to see all of the numbers ie- 1234567890 so I can get them right. I noticed there are 2 different "fonts" for the numbers.
    -Is the Frisco shield on the nose Yellow and what size is it?
    I would expect the set to letter 2 or 3 different diesels limited by FRISCO's and numbers. (I see 2 sizes of FRISCOs and 2 different number fonts) Ball park retail price will be $6-$9 US. I'll sell the first bulk order at wholesale (probably $5-$7). I won't start drawing until June so I won't need the information till then. I have several other projects in the pipeline.
    Allen"

    The following was also stated by BCD:

    "The print run will be 250 but seeing as the left side of the geeps/switchers is the same as the right (mostly) a set will consist of 2 identical sheets thus we'll be down to 125 sets."

    BCD partially quotes a question I asked him. My question was:

    "So we're talking about a final product consisting of TWO sheets, correct?"

    BCD's reply to the above question was:

    "Yes, but at this time I'm not sure how big they will end up as. I'm hoping to fit them into one of my standard envelope (5 1/2 X 3 1/8")"

    During the course of our email exchanges, I asked BCD this question:

    "We're also talking about a final product that has the same SCOPE of the Oddballs set? (i.e. Essentially the same variety/ability to decal basically all variations of the stripped units as did the Oddballs set)."

    To which BCD answered:

    "Yes."

    And BCD added:

    "When they arrive from the printer then you can send a bulk order and I'll ship within a week of your check. It will become a stock item after that."

    From previous correspondence with BCD, I asked:

    "Okay, so far I have commitments for something like 50-60 sets. Does this mean we only need to hit our commitment number of 50-60 sets, and you'll absorb the rest for store stock?"

    To which BCD answered:

    "Yes"

    And BCD added:

    "I pay about $50 for a custom colour so we can do any color you want."

    Which I thought a bit unclear (as if he'll pay us $50), but I assumed he meant we would need to add $50 to the overall price of the project to use a "custom colour". ("Custom colour": Not white or black, I suppose?)

    So, in view of the $50 statement, I asked this:

    "So is that added to the cost of the sets over the 125 run or do we pay that up front?"

    To which BCD responded:

    "No, that will be included. It just makes sense to do everything we want at once rather than HO one run then N scale two months later. I assume there will be 10-20 who will pop up and a couple of O scale after that. I just wanted you to know how my costing is arrived at. For example CPR has a beaver shield on their equipment. I drew it with 7 different colors ($50 X 7 = $350 extra) so I printed every shield in every scale I could think of on one sheet. Parts of that sheet get inserted with the steam and diesel locomotives, passenger cars, express trucks in any scale. This isn't that extreme."

    Thus ends the the email quotes that BCD sent to you.

    Frankly, I'm somewhat offended by what I perceived as his implication I was in someway expecting him to replicate the Oddballs set as is. In my opinion, by simply reading our correspondence above one can plainly see that I was hoping for a set that was similar to the scope of the Oddballs set, but in no way was encouraging him to "copy somebody's work".

    At this point I'm a bit unsettled in moving forward in dealing with BCD. As stated, I'm somewhat offended reading his inference and I take it personally. Also, seeing as he is the one that left me/us hanging, and didn't respond to my emails to the email address HE supplied and that HE wanted to use for correspondence, then I'm beginning to feel reluctant to commit a fair amount of my personal funds to an endeavor with Black Cat Decals.

    Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but my statements above results from the impression I've received and thus I'm stating my feelings concerning the matter.
     
    gjslsffan likes this.
  19. Joe Lovett

    Joe Lovett Member

    Ok, it looks like we have hit a brick wall with Black Cat Decals.

    Ray, would you please contact Mask Island Decals and get them to start on a decal special run?

    Joe
     
  20. Coonskin

    Coonskin Member

    I think everything is displaying, now. Where did you get the screen printed Frisco decal sets???


    ADMIN NOTE: I copied posts to this thread from another thread that have particular relevance here.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 19, 2016

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