I got'n IDEA

I'm pretty positive I'm not the only modeler who would love to have a model of various FRISCO depots and train stations. I was watching a program on modeling the other day and an IDEA popped me on my brain like a shot of lighting (NO IT DIDN'T HURT)

since we dont have very many options as far as certain models, I. E. Stations, Depots, models of rolling stock would this work?

the program I watched was on Architecture and the models made prior to building the real building and I found out they use Laser 3D printers to make the models from the blue prints and scale drawings of the proposed building and thought, WHAT IF WE TOOK THE BLUE PRINTS from the depots and did the same thing. A 3D printer for a good cheap one is roughly $588 dollars retail and the plastic rolls which come in an array of colors arent very much either. You place the blue print and drawings of the project into a regular scanner and scan them into the computer, type in the dementions of the actual building then you scale it down the same way you would model trains 1:64, 1:87 etc..... and then hit print and the 3D printer comes to life and builds a 3D model in layers of what ever it is your wanting a model of. To my understanding these jewels of the modeling age can also add full interiors too. I thought it would be pretty neat and convenient as a way to make a ready to paint model of the FRISCO Cherryvale Ks. Depot as well as building an accurate copy of the St. Louis Union Station of course which would have to be done in sections then glued together.

As fellow FRISCO modelers historians and fans of the FRISCO railroad, what are your opinions on this and would IT, Could IT work. I know I may have just given away a money making idea but what the heck, as long as someone sends me a free model of St. Louis Union Station and a Cherryvale Depot for giving them the idea, I wouldnt care much past that!!!

 

I think rapid prototyping is a viable method for modeling things like structures, but at this point it's only possible to do it in small scales without the model getting expensive. That's not to say a larger model couldn't be made in subassemblies.

Where the disconnect is with your idea is going from scanned 2D blueprints to a 3D model. Without extremely detailed drawings that are "linked" to each other, the computer program can't "know" how the different views and sections line up with one another. Not only that, as modelers we're interested most in the finished exterior of the structure and architectural drawings deal with lots of different "layers" like plumbing, structural, electrical and so on, so there tends to be a lot of information in such drawings we'd find unnecessary.

If you had a person make a 3D model using blueprints and photos of the real structure, I think you could then start deconstructing the 3D model to make it something that could be rendered with a rapid prototyping printer. To a certain extent, people are already doing this, but they're making 3D models of real structures and rolling stock for the various train simulator games. There's a difference in the way 3D models for gaming and 3D solid models for engineering are made in the computer, but I wouldn't be surprised to see those differences blurred in the coming years.

If you haven't already checked it out or if it's been awhile, take a look at Shapeways:

http://www.shapeways.com/

 

I have seen blue prints, floor plans and detailed drawings of the Cherryvale Frisco depot, with dementions in feet and inches of how big the actual depot was as well as the exterior of the building front a sort of arial drawing, and I wonder what the outcome would be using this method. Might be worth a shot. Everything I would need I have access to.

 

Sounds like an better idea for a single entrepreneur or a couple of partners to undertake than for a group or modeling society to try to administrate. Better it be under one roof than across a wide geographical area (Like Frisco-Dot-Org).

TAG 1014

 

Oh no, I wasn't figuring frisco.org do it as a whole or a group, I was wondering if anyone knows if it would work, could it be successful, is it something that you guys would be interested in, and is it possible with 3D printing? As I stated in the original post, I think it would be cool and also if it could work, It might take our ready made market to a whole new level as far as availability of some of the structures and possibly, rolling stock models we want. I am still all for scratch building models, brass productions of accurate models and mass produced locomotives and rolling stock in our preferred railroad, I was just thinking maybe if the 3D printing would work, and work right, could we make models we desire like "for me" Cherryvale Depot, Neodesha depot, Wichita station, or on a much much larger scale, Memphis station, St. Louis Union Station, Kansas City Union Station and the list could go on and on and make desired models throughout the FRISCO System.

 

Well, first off, you will be sorely disappointed in your $588 printer if you think you are going to get a good HO scale structure in a single print, or at least, it better be small and simple. The build area, and the quality of the print will be an issue. This HO scale smokehouse was printed in five pieces.


This house, note the dime for size, was 3d printed. The windows and doors are separate pieces, and as are the gable ends...details of how it was printed can be seen here: http://nvrr49.blogspot.com/2013/12/the-house-3d-printed-down-on-farm-5.html


Obviously one has to have the 3d drawings to make the printer work, but that can be done. At this point, a station of any size would have to be printed in sections, unless one used an industrial printer, but it certainly could be done. I am currently looking at trying to print a Frisco section house. I would really like some pictures of a Frisco section house to help. If I can find time to do the drawings, etc, I would like to do a clinic at the Frisco meeting in Joplin.

I am also looking at the C&E depot to make the MP crowd happy. For this one, I need some dimensions, but in both cases, I can work with what I have.


I have done several dozen blog entries on 3d printing, both with my own Afinia printer, and using shapeways. I have also presented clinics at the NMRA regional here in KC, at the Amherst show, and I will be at the National Narrow Gauge convention in October. My blog can be viewed at nvrr49.blogspot.com. And I do not charge for answering questions

 

Kent,

What software are you using to create the 3D drawings? Looking at your farmhouse, why were the gables printed upside down?

 

I use SketchUp. It is free, and I am poor and cheap.

The entire house is printed upside down. That eliminates the need for support material for the overhangs on the siding. Also, printed right side up, there is some sagging...see this picture.


And then all the support material around the structure to support the overhangs.


In this case, I wanted bad, weathered looking siding, so I printed it right side up.

The finished structure, in this case a hog farrowing house, can be seen here: http://nvrr49.blogspot.com/2014/02/farrowing-barn-down-on-farm-8-3d-printed.html

 

I have done loco shells. Handrail can be done, but at this point would be too fragile. I will post some HO shells tonight.


Kent in KC
nvrr49@yahoo.com
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

Before the railroad, I worked in civil engineering, so I'm pretty comfortable with AutoCAD. I've tried Sketchup, but it's just a little too different from how I learned 3D modeling.

I didn't realize the material would have to be supported as it prints. I'm going to go through the tutorial process at Shapeways and see what I can come up with in AutoCAD. I can think of a bunch of projects I could produce this way. The last time I looked around that website it seemed like more of a novelty than anything else, but I'm seeing some pretty cool stuff when I search "1:87" this time around.

 

And the support depends on the type of printer, and the material being used. Most of what shapeways uses, and what you would want to order to get the best quality, are printed from a powder, on $100,000 or more machines. Mine is basically a computerized hot melt glue gun. Regardless, the designer does not have to design the support material, the printer software will do that for you. That is not always the case, but it is with most 3d printers. Depending on the type of printer, orientation of the item in the print envelope can make a big difference in the support material needed, and in the quality of the finished print. Shapeways, however, controls that, and the orientation may be different from one order to the next. Personally, I have never had an issue with that at shapeways, but certainly that is one of the major complaints about their process. For my printer, obviously, I control the orientation, but then I can not get near the detail that shapeways can.


This is HO scale, but on a Z scale mechanism for a mine engine. Printed in FUD at shapeways. The precision is amazing. The shell slips over the mechanism just like it was made for it....cause it was.

 

I knew I would find the other one as soon as I posted the first one. This is HON30, and fits an Atlas N scale Davenport.

 

Fantastic work, Kent. This technology really has come a long way. Is that Frosted Ultra Detail plastic easy to work with?

 

Another Frisco modeler, Louis Griesemer, has done some wood-sided cabooses in N scale, so folks are starting to use this technology. Sharing communities will develop as the printers become more available. They are teaching their use in junior high, to the computer club kids, etc.
Kent, I would be in favor of a clinic for Joplin; perhaps we can have a few others bring samples and stir the pot for some projects.

 

Now that I'm almost near the end of my AutoCAD intro course, I am aggressively looking into acquiring a laser cutter. Structures and other items are on my want list to do. If this goes through, I may be able to do some Frisco buildings on the CAD and then laser cut the pieces. Time will tell.

 

Manny, there is most likely a laser in your area that you can use without having to buy one. Here in KC, there are a couple at Hammer Space that are available for hire. They also have multiple 3d printers.


Kent in KC
nvrr49@yahoo.com
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

Kent,

Doesn't the Johnson County Public Library have a very nice 3D printer available for use?

Have you ever tried Blender in place of sketchup? It's very high quality freeware that allows greater quality and versatile 3D modeling over sketchup. I've dabbled with Blendor to make 3D models for exportation into Trainz. I'm no where an expert with the software yet though I'd like to be someday.