40' Boxcar Rebuild

Discussion in 'Freight Equipment' started by JimB, Mar 3, 2009.

  1. Rick McClellan

    Rick McClellan 2009 Engineer of the Year

    I just made a cursory comparison of the Westerfield car and the Ertl car. The differences look like

    1. The Ertl car will need another grab iron above the stirrup step to the left of the sliding door.

    2. The Ertil car will need the grab iron on the door underneath the angle iron stiffener.

    3. The stirrup steps on the Ertl car are shorter than the Westerfield car.

    The balance of the details on the sides look the same to me. I will have to check the ends out when I get home tonight but the brakewheel looks the same on both models.

    It could be we have a more reasonably priced alternative for the Dbl Sheathed cars.

    Ship IT on the Frisco!

    Rick
     
  2. gna

    gna Member Frisco.org Supporter

    The only Ertl Double sheath cars I could find were 50' cars--do they make both a 40' and a 50' DS car?
     
  3. Rick McClellan

    Rick McClellan 2009 Engineer of the Year

    Gary,

    I am not familiar with a 50' Ertl DS box. The photo of the ACL car below is an Ertl 40' DS box.

    Ship IT on the Frisco!

    Rick
     
  4. gna

    gna Member Frisco.org Supporter

  5. Rick McClellan

    Rick McClellan 2009 Engineer of the Year

    OK I checked my Ertl ACL DS box car end last night and it has the same ends as the Westerfield model. The only noticeable difference is the location of the tack board. It is a little lower on the Ertl model.

    I need to add that I have 3-4 of the Ertls DS working on my layout but they needed some maintenance before going into service. New couplers (Kadee #58) and Intermountain 33" wheels made them run as good as the rest of the car fleet.

    Ship IT on the Frisco!

    Rick
     
  6. JimB

    JimB Member

    I spoke with the folks at Red Caboose yesterday. They are taking preorders for #RC-8001 Square-corner post (or 8002, w-corner post) undecorated 40' AAR boxcars. Even though their website says the Frisco cars are in stock, they're not. The 8001 undec cars should ship in about a month, according to the guy I talked to on the phone, and he took my email. This is a faithful reproduction of the cars, and this company seems to have reasonable detective work abroad to make sue their cars are correct, from all I've read, but i've never put one together, although, Ken seems to have some experience as per previous posts on this thread

    ************************************************

    At my local hobby shop i picked up a Branchline blueprint series of a TP&W 40'AAR, just to familiarize myself with that car. i have just started it, and it is my first time building a quality car (unless you count the E8-9 P2K that started life as a Pennsy, and is being transformed into Cavalcade, 2019 that i'v re-stripped about 3 times...but that is a subject for another forum...The Branchline is actually going better than i thought...maybe some 10 foot shots in a while. not to the 3 foot stage yet.

    ************************************************

    I also just ordered a Westerfield DS-1933 Rebuild of the Frisco 40' boxcar. This company takes your order, then makes the boxes up of parts, etc. they said they would be able to ship by the end of this week (mar 13-14, 2009). I cant afford this, but i'm on a mission!

    *************************************************

    Finally, over the weekend-last i was at another shop in west county St. Louis. i passed by the ho section, that's looking more and more anemic every time I drop by, but there was an Accurail 40' DS MoPac on the shelf calling my name as i walked by...."Jiiiimm",......Jiimmm, come here!" I looked around, but no one was there!..."JIM...GET OVER HERE" basically, the car said if i didnt work on her first, i would never have the true joy of such higher-class models as i was anticipating. so I bought her, and will try to get her done first.

    ***********************************************

    Seriously, I have been quite impressed of the number of companies carrying our favorite road. This post has begun to teach me, and i want to learn more, and I'm off to do more reasearch and glue parts together. i want to build their offerings and hopefully have something to report, and a WHOLE LOT to learn, and maybe a little fun along the way.
    regards!
    JimB
     
  7. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Your enthusiasm is contagious, Jim. Prototype model railroading is indeed fun, especially when it's a mighty fine road (too bad Leadbelly, Jimmie Rodgers or Roy Acuff never recorded a bit SL-SF hit but at least we do have our song).

    Looking forward to more reports and photos,
     
  8. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Jim -

    The AccuRail DS box car is a nice kit. Have fun with your MoP version. I'm sure those were seen on the SLSF often. You will probably want to add corner grabirons to the roof walk, which are missing for some reason. Tichy, Westerfield and others make them.

    Did Red Caboose say if they were going to re-run the 1937 AAR box car in Frisco colors?

    The 1937 AAR box is a nice kit - accurate and relatively easy to assemble. It uses the former IMWX tooling. IMWX was a pioneer in high quality freight car kits, which led to what we have today from Red Caboose, InterMountain, P2K, Branchline and others. Somehow I think IMWX and InterMountain, and also perhaps Red Caboose, are/were related.

    Ken
     
  9. JimB

    JimB Member

    Thanks-
    No, RC does not plan to run the Frisco version of the 40' AAR.
    Thanks for the tip on the roof walk grab irons.
    Regards,
    Jim

    OK...I give up...What is OUR SONG?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 11, 2009
  10. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

  11. JimB

    JimB Member

    Well, here's my first try at 40' boxcar building. This is actually an Accurail MP dbl dr box. I thought I would give a try to completely detailing the AB brakes. I may try a few more underbodies before tackling the rest of the car. Brake piping is tedious, but fun. I can already see about a dozen mistakes, and nearly 60 yr/old blurry eyes and shaky fingers make for some interestingly unexpected "extras", but I'm happy for a first try. I don't have any Frisco underbody drawings or pictures available, so if anyone does I would appreciate seeing something. I must say, I was quite inspired by the article posted by Gary in the "Brake Equipment" post

    While that is a great reference on brakes in general, I'm not sure of the differences that might be seen on the various Frisco cars.

    Jim
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2009
  12. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Jim, whatever the case, you've taken the first step! It shows what just a little extra something can do to amp up a pretty decent and affordable piece of rolling stock.

    Nice work; I'm enjoying seeing all of the fine modeling work out there. Now I need to stop gawking and get moving on my own.
     
  13. gna

    gna Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Terrific job! What did you use for the brake components?

    I agree with you that adding the piping can be tedious, but I enjoyed learning about the different equipment. It was fun. I have been trying to rebuild some of my Accurail cars and add brake piping, like in the RMC article that started this thread, or that Ted Culotta article. Here's a car I removed the fishbelly from, and added some brake lines. I used the Accurail brake parts. I just rough cut styrene for the levers and fittings. I should have moved the brake reservoir, as it's in the way.

    The biggest problem is the trucks bump into some of the brake lines when I run the cars--I need to tweak my work some more. Sorry about the picture quality.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2009
  14. JimB

    JimB Member

    I used the accurail valve, cylinder and reservoirs and styrene for the levers. I have since found a place to get 40 link/inch chain, but in this car it was a small piece from a Branchline kit. I used styrene rod (.010 for the short hoses, .020 for the retainer line, and .030 - probably too large - for the train line) for all the hoses, and .015 piano wire for the rods. I started with brass rod, but, to me, it didn't really look like metal rod because of the slight bends that inevitably occurred. The piano wire is a little harder to crimp on the ends, but I think it looks better, and is also more sturdy.

    I note in Ted Culotta's article (fig. 6) a double 90 deg. bend in the B end brake rod. Perhaps that helps keep it out of the way of the truck. Unfortunately, I am not yet running any trains, so I don't have any experience on how much binding will occur!

    Addendum:
    I zoomed in on your picture and I realize that is just what I am wanting to do with a fishbelly car I have. It is a Westerfield Modernized Frisco DS 40' Box. I am building it with the door rollers removed and the 4" Track welded over the rollers. I think these cars were rebuilt with AB brakes instead of K, but it is not clear to me how AB's fit with a fishbelly underframe, particularly in the way the levers extend through the center beams. The Westerfield instructions are not completely clear on this. What I don't know if that would be appropriate for the approx 1950 era (which I am planning to model). Any one out there with info on this would be appreciated.

    Jim
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2009
  15. gna

    gna Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I used .015 brass rod, rather than the .010 or .012 i should have used, for just that reason--it's a little sturdier. Never thought to use styrene rod, though.

    Here's some pictures of an DS Ertl car I just got. They molded in some AB brake details, so you can get a general idea of the layout. I may use this car as a pattern for my cars with fishbellies.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    This also clears up the 40/50 foot mystery--it's clearly a 40' car, but it's labeled a 50' car on the box.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 22, 2009
  16. Rick McClellan

    Rick McClellan 2009 Engineer of the Year

    I may be nuts but I like these cars. These seem to have all the identifying features of the Frisco DS boxes so I have a couple I will paint up for the SLSF in the near future.

    The one thing I question are the paint schemes. The RailModel Journal article from a few years ago show paint schemes that are different from the ones that Ertl created. The Ertl paint and lettering is neat and sharp but it doesn't match the RMJ photos. I wonder what they worked from. In any event, I am running the MP and ACL cars on my layout now due to a severe 40' box car shortage. I will repaint later. These cars had to be pressed into service.

    I would appreciate the opinion of others regarding the paint schemes on the Ertl cars.

    Frisco Faster Freight!

    Rick
     
  17. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Rick, Gary -

    I've not ever seen the DS Ertl car. It looks like it might have a bit more detail than the Accurail car. What's its cost vs the Accurail?

    Gotta do something about the color of those trucks! Do they have an Andrews truck for it - these cars, I think, generally stayed on their Andrews trucks on the SLSF, many even after their extensive rebuild.

    If no Ertl Andrews truck, Tichy and Accurail each have a good one - both inexpensive!

    Looks like I might want to try an Ertl.

    Ken
     
  18. gna

    gna Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I'd never heard of an Ertl freight car before, either, until Rick mentioned them earlier in this thread. As it happens, my friend has several on his layout, so I went to ebay and bought my cars and loads from an ebay seller. I'm not sure if we can link to ebay here, but if you do a search under HO you'll find them. I paid about $10 a car.

    Ertl made some HO equipment briefly in the late '90s, but have since discontinued them. They are very well done, with good details and sharp paint. In addition, the roof on the boxcar is removable, and the floor can be removed, so one can insert a floor with a load attached:

    http://www.internetmodeler.com/2001/may/railroad/ertl_ho_cars.htm



    They come preweathered, with dirt on the underframe, trucks, and sill, so putting metal wheels in will really stand out. The biggest problem is they are featherlight--I may add some weight to them.

    As far as paint schemes, I don't know. I think the scheme on them is right for the '40s and '50s, though the buzz saw herald is different, judging from these photos:

    http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mp/mp047618jpa.jpg
    http://www.steamfreightcars.com/modeling/models/culotta/mp42308main.html

    The Accurail car is almost the same: http://www.accurail.com/accurail/art/4600/4619.jpg

    I did find this early shot, though:
    http://www.trainweb.org/screamingea...el/mopac_steam/MOPACBoxCar_45111Taken1919.jpg

    Maybe some Mopac modelers can let us know what's right.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 23, 2009
  19. JimB

    JimB Member


    Thanks, Gary. this is the type of stuff im looking for. i'm also trying to researh whether any of the 40' DS Boxes (Frisco's 3500 cars that came via gov subsidy after ww1) originally had (or were rebuilt to) straight center beams as opposed to fishbelly. as i noted, the assembly directirections on theWesterfield car are weak in that area. i think that info may be on the "steam Era Cars Page" that has floated around here, but I dont exactly know how to decipher it.
     
  20. gna

    gna Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I think all doublesheath cars had fishbellies--all the strength was in the frame, as the body sat on top of the frame as a simple box. When they were rebuilt they kept the fishbelly frame. You can see the Fishbelly in this picture: http://www.steamfreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/slsf128209main.html

    Most (but not all) single sheath cars had braces tied to the frame, using the body as part of the support so they didn't need the heavy fishbelly frame. Boxcar design was in flux in the early part of the 20th century, so some designers didn't trust a single sheath design without a fishbelly. The Frisco had both--some single sheath cars had a fishbelly, some didn't.
     

Share This Page