In the past I've seen discussion about run through power on the Frisco. Union Pacific going northwest, Santa Fe going southwest and SCL going both ways. One road I have never heard of running units through is the Norfolk and Western. I was looking through photos for another thread, and stumbled across a few pictures of N&W units mixed with Frisco units in Denver and in Kansas City. So I would think they are on the NWF/FSE trains. What I don't understand is why. The only N&W connections with the Frisco would be KC and St. Louis. I don't see where those trains would be rolling down N&W trackage. Additionally, I found another photo with Frisco, N&W and MoPac units all together in a consist. The location is marked unknown, but I'm guessing its out west on UP trackage. The MoPac unit really puzzles me. Why would the Frisco, MP and NW pool power on a UP-Frisco-SCL train? http://frisco.org/mainline/wp-conte...ver-Colorado-in-September-1979-C.P.-Ayers.jpg http://frisco.org/mainline/wp-conte...901-location-unknown-location-in-May-1980.jpg http://frisco.org/mainline/wp-conte...943-unk-location-unk-date-by-Glenn-Stanko.jpg
Don’t assume too much. The Frisco unit in Denver wasn’t a part of a Frisco-UP, run-through freight. It was likely being used by Uncle Pete to balance “mileage” against what its units ran while on the Frisco.
Currently, a unit train of about 86 corn syrup cars runs along the BNSF Cuba sub about once a week. It originates in Decatur, IL on NS (ex-Wabash, ex-N&W). Power is frequently 3 NS units with a BNSF unit on the point, but there are times when it is all NS power. What does that mean for 40+ years ago? While I am sure there was corn product traffic (ethanol, syrup, gluten meal), I do not recall very many incidents of N&W run-through power on Frisco in the 1974-1980 era or on the "successor" from 1980 to 1996. It has been a long time and maybe I am getting old .
Ethan, I happen to be a member of the Classic-UP group on Groups.io and we've discussed the topic of run-throughs and pooled power at length. Union Pacific pooled power with the Frisco, Norfolk & Western and MoPac at Kansas City and operated separate run-through trains with each. The MoPac and N&W units are likely on FSE because UP is going to return the MoPac and N&W units to their owners at Kansas City. At that point they will swap in a couple of UP units that have come back from pool service before sending FSE on its way.
No problem. If you're curious, UP's run-throughs with the N&W were Transcontinental 2 (TC-2) and Transcontinental 4 (TC-4). TC-2 operated from North Platte to Bellevue, OH, while TC-4 operated from North Platte to Buffalo, NY's Bison Yard. Its run-through with MoPac was Union Pacific-Missouri Pacific-Southern (UMS). UMS operated from North Platte to Sheffield, AL. It was MoPac and Southern's attempt at operating an FSE-type train with UP. Interestingly, UMS and its westbound counterpart SMU both operated on MoPac's scenic White River Division, which later became the Missouri & Northern Arkansas.
This is the gold mine of info I've been waiting for. Thank you so much. Very interesting that the UMS and SMU ran the White River Sub. I grew up in, and still live in Lamar, MO, where the Frisco's Ash Grove Subdivision, route of both the NWF and the FSE, crossed the MoPac's White River Subdivision. Now I gotta find a way to incorporate UMS and SMU into my layout Thanks, Ethan
I'm glad I could be of help. As an aside, MoPac's White River Division saw a brief surge in traffic during the 1970s and early 1980s in the form of eastbound coal from Wyoming and Colorado and bridge traffic from Union Pacific and Southern. Unfortunately, this surge in traffic proved short-lived and in 1992 Union Pacific spun off the White River Division to RailTex. While I don't know for certain, I assume this drop in traffic was because Southern began sending traffic bound for UP rails over the Norfolk & Western to Kansas City after the N&W and Southern came under common ownership.
I think part of it has to do with UP re-configuring their system after the MP and MKT merged in. One of the lines in SE Kansas is south bound only now, I think its the former MKT. There is a power plant at Diaz, AR that's at the very far east end of the White River Subdivision. After loaded trains are brought in and emptied, they are sent back north via the MNA. Bringing it back to the Frisco, the Ash Grove Subdivision saw a surge in traffic from new shipments of Wyoming coal as well. For a while, the Santa Fe and UP shipped coal from KC down to Springfield and back up to St. Louis. I don't have any specific info as of now, but I would imagine there would have been similar arrangements to serve the plants that started popping up in the SE that BNSF serves to this day over the former Ash Grove Subdivision. Helpful links: http://frisco.org/shipit/index.php?...-kansas-city-atsf-rush-tower.6788/#post-52662 http://www.frisco.org/shipit/index.php?threads/train-upl-unit-coal-kansas-city-up-rush-tower.6787/
Kinda cool there is a Mandarin orange and white shed in a UP yard. Wonder if it was a Frisco tool shed or something like that? http://frisco.org/mainline/wp-conte...901-location-unknown-location-in-May-1980.jpg
It sounds like the settings on your monitor might be slightly wonky. The Frisco's diesels were painted a brilliant red-orange, the same color Chevrolet used for its big-block V8s. On my end, that toolshed is painted in a shade closer to safety orange and is noticeably lighter than SLSF 901.
The official name of the color used by the Frisco was called Mandarin Orange. The Frisco orange and white scheme is a modification of the scheme used by EMD on the GP35 demonstrators. It is, as you said, the same orange used by Chevy for engine blocks. I have heard the Frisco shop in Springfield had rattle cans of Chevy engine block paint for quick touch ups. Paul
My experiences concur. I saw the the Mech Dept guys use the rattle cans to touch up engines at the Fort Smith roundhouse. My long time friend that worked for the Frisco from '71(2?) until '82 saw 55 gallon drums of "Chevrolet Engine Orange" in the same roundhouse. Andre
Paul, I feel as though I should clarify what color I am referring to. Sometime after 1965, Chevrolet began painting their big-block V8s in a red-orange shade. This color (left) is similar to fire engine red, but with a slight orange hue and is sometimes referred to as "Chevy engine red" so as to distinguish it from the color Chevrolet painted its small-block engines, which is a true orange (right). Chevy engine red is not to be confused with the much darker shade of red that Chevrolet painted its big-block V8s during the 1956-57 model year.
Going on memory here, but I think I recall the rattle cans I saw, and the 55 gal drums my Frisco friend saw, were Krylon brand. I will double check with him next time I talk to him. I seem to recall that we thought it great that we could go down to the auto parts stores and bring home a can of the exact same paint for our models. (Which we did.) EDIT: Need to mention that my references are from '71 on. Further, I do not know if the use of the paint mentioned was unique to the Fort Smith roundhouse or whether it was system wide. I also do not know what paint was originally used by the Frisco for the hi-viz scheme we are discussing that originated on Feb 14, 1965. Andre