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ANOTHER GREAT FRISCO RAFFLE!

CTC Machine At Springfield - 543 East Commercial Street Building - 1949

Discussion in 'Operations' started by frisco1522, Nov 15, 2016.

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  1. frisco1522

    frisco1522 Staff Member Staff Member

    This is a US&S company negative which is on Flikr courtesy of Zach Gillihan of the CTC machine at Springfield.

    You can see Newburg at the very left and the wye at Bundy Junction.

    Wish I could read the Train Sheet.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2023
    frisco1522, Nov 15, 2016
    #1
    gjslsffan, RogerRT, FriscoCharlie and 2 others like this.
  2. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Frisco.org Supporter

    That's when you wish you had some of the CSI TV techniques to magnify photos.

    Tom G.
     
    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020), Nov 15, 2016
    #2
    r c h likes this.
  3. RogerRT

    RogerRT Staff Member Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I see the telegraph key and sounder and a Hamilton Watch in the lower right..

    Roger
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2023
    RogerRT, Nov 16, 2016
    #3
    Karl likes this.
  4. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Great image Don,

    I have annotated the picture with the location names.

    SGF_CTC_1949_annotated_decimated.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2016
    Karl, Nov 16, 2016
    #4
    FriscoCharlie, gjslsffan, William Jackson and 3 others like this.
  5. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Absolutely super, Karl!
     
    klrwhizkid, Nov 16, 2016
    #5
    gjslsffan and geep07 like this.
  6. tferk

    tferk Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Does anyone know what other subdivision this dispatcher position handled, board directly in front of dispatcher?

    And, where was the board for Lindenwood - Newburg located at that time?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2023
    tferk, Nov 16, 2016
    #6
    Karl likes this.
  7. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    This plant handled movements between Pacific and Monett.

    This machine included the Rolla Subdivision (Pacific to Newburg), Lebanon Subdivision (Newburg to Springfield) and Springfield Subdivision (Springfield to Monett).

    It was still APB between Grand Ave (St. Louis) and Pacific, MO at this time.

    I have a attached a photo from Railroading The Modern Way, 1951, which shows the entire machine, The Pacific to Newburg segment is visible on the left.

    CTC_SY_Railroading_the_modern_way.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2023
    Karl, Nov 16, 2016
    #7
    FriscoCharlie, RogerRT and Ozarktraveler like this.
  8. RogerRT

    RogerRT Staff Member Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    That was when a DS knew how get trains over the road, those guys were well respected and they earned every bit of it.

    I often wonder after sitting 15 minutes at a red board, which miraculously goes high green, all of sudden how dispatchers would be able to work in a train order situation without CTC and mouse.

    Just my 2 cents worth.

    Roger
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2023
    RogerRT, Nov 16, 2016
    #8
  9. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Roger,

    At the risk of over-simplification, Timetable and Train Order (TTTO) is actually a little easier for the dispatcher in the sense that the scheduled trains are moving across the system according to a predetermined order, without the dispatcher needing to do anything other than track them across the road as they are reported On Sheet (OS) by station operators.

    The dispatcher's real work in TTTO is in writing orders for extras to protect them from oncoming extras (each other). Once the dispatcher has created an Extra and provided orders of protection, the movement of an extra is the train crew's responsibility. The dispatcher then tracks their progress across the road as they are reported OS by station operators.

    With CTC, the dispatcher has to track and line up routes and signals for scheduled trains and extras on the dispatch board and On Sheet to move them all across the railroad. It is a more intense working situation in my estimation.

    I have worked as a dispatcher on TTTO layouts, and while the intensity is not as great as on a prototype road (no one is going to die), the job is not that hard. Dispatching a model railroad on CTC, as it would be on prototype, is much more intense as one has to be actively involved.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2023
    klrwhizkid, Nov 17, 2016
    #9
    Ozarktraveler likes this.
  10. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Fascinating photo and information, fellas.

    How'd you liked to have salvaged this machine to reuse on your layout?

    I think MRP from a few years ago featured a Jay Miller article on doing just that with an ATSF machine.

    Referencing the photo of Don's dad picking up orders at Southeastern Junction in April, 1951, Joe Collias in Frisco Power mentions the CTC building going up in the background that would eventually supplant the tower. Would this have been the home for the aforementioned Grand Ave. - Pacific machine?

    http://www.frisco.org/shipit/index.php?attachments/2888-jpg.926/

    The full series of photos available at yje following.

    http://www.frisco.org/shipit/index.php?threads/4-8-2-4400s.180/#post-1568

    Excellent photos, excellent discussion.

    Best Regards,
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2023
    yardmaster, Nov 17, 2016
    #10
  11. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Supplant the functions of the tower? Yes.

    Would this have been the home for the aforementioned Grand Ave. - Pacific machine? No

    More later
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2023
    Karl, Nov 18, 2016
    #11
  12. geep07

    geep07 Member

    Keith,

    I have operated on local layouts using TTTO order system, I had fun with it being the engineer of a train. I cannot imagine what would happen when things go wrong such as a coupler broke mid-train and it rolled down the helix or a short that shut down part of the layout. When these things happen it really throws the TTTO out of sync.

    I cannot imagine the dispatcher sitting in another room trying to figure out on how to solve the mess and to get the line open and rolling again.

    I'll just be an engineer!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2023
    geep07, Nov 18, 2016
    #12
  13. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Gives on an appreciation of the dispatcher's role on both the 1:1 and 1:87 or otherwise railroads. Definite multitasking.

    My sample size is small, but I can attest to the fine job that Keith did the one time I operated with him in KC ages ago. It's nice to have a calm yet authoritative voice at the other end of the phone.

    I forgot to ask about the Timetable Drum. Again, another new thing to have learned. It makes excellent sense, and a good example of form following function. I wouldn't mind seeing one of these incorporated in a layout.

    Best Regards,
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2023
    yardmaster, Nov 18, 2016
    #13
  14. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    That certainly would have been handy for the times I've been dispatcher on a TT&TO layout. Of course, on that layout, we didn't issue too many train orders, not written ones anyway.

    I have a handset from a Frisco diesel, complete with coonskin logo, that I plan on some day incorporating into the dispatcher's desk of a yet to be built layout. Need to buy another house first.

    I'll have to think about incorporating the timetable drum as well. It wouldn't be too hard to replicate the drum using a 4" PVC pipe and some fittings. As a guess, I would say the prototype is 6" to 8" diameter.

    Paul
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2023
    pbender, Nov 20, 2016
    #14
  15. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    pbender, Nov 20, 2016
    #15
    Ozarktraveler and RogerRT like this.
  16. RogerRT

    RogerRT Staff Member Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2023
    RogerRT, Nov 21, 2016
    #16
  17. Ozarktraveler

    Ozarktraveler Member

    Precisely what is an "On Sheet" report?

    I understand its purpose, so, more specifically, was it radioed, phoned, or telegraphed by station agent to the dispatcher?
     
    Ozarktraveler, Nov 21, 2016
    #17
  18. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    In dark territory or ABS, the station agent / operator would telegraph / phone the DS.

    Example, train 131 by Lockwood at 1:14 PM.

    The DS would duly record (OS) No 131's time at Lockwood on the train sheet.

    Radios were not used for dispatching on the Frisco.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2023
    Karl, Nov 21, 2016
    #18
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  19. Ozarktraveler

    Ozarktraveler Member

    Thank you.
     
    Ozarktraveler, Nov 21, 2016
    #19
  20. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Frisco.org Supporter

    Speaking of radios, anybody know why freight diesels and switch engines were equipped with radios, but the racehorse/Redbirds were not?

    Thanks,

    Tom G.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2023
    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020), Nov 21, 2016
    #20
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