Sulligent Water Tank Modeling Project

Discussion in 'Other Scales' started by trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017), Oct 23, 2016.

  1. trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017)

    trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017) Passed away September 22, 2017

    I'm thinking about loosely modeling the old water tank near the tracks in Sulligent. It would be an accessory to my 1:4 scale 4-8-2 smoker. I have a black, plastic, 55-gallon drum with a diameter of 24". Can anyone think of how I could make something to resemble the "bowl" shape underneath? I had my grandmother's old Weber grill that burned out in the bottom but I gave it to my neighbor for scrap. Now I'm kicking myself. It would have been perfect. Any other ideas?
    water tower.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
    FriscoCharlie likes this.
  2. trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017)

    trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017) Passed away September 22, 2017

  3. Joe Lovett

    Joe Lovett Member

    You could use insulation foam to make the bowl. Stack it up using caulking as glue and carve to shape. I know it will take paint well and hold up in UV light. It may take some effort to shape it right, just take your time and it will be alright.

    Joe
     
  4. WindsorSpring

    WindsorSpring Member

    Foam is easy to shape and, once painted, will not be affected by UV. (You do not plan on putting it out in the Sun, anyway.)
    It does have that open texture, though, and that will detract. You could fill with microballoons and epoxy and then gently sand smooth. Does anyone else have an idea for filling foam?
     
  5. trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017)

    trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017) Passed away September 22, 2017

    Thanks, Joe. Shaping a hemisphere out of stacked Styrofoam insulation is the only idea I've come across so far... outside of buying a 22" Weber grill just for the bowl. (I've priced them & I don't think I'll be doing that.) I put a link to an "instructable" for Styrofoam spheres in post #2. I'm going to give it a shot soon. Can you recommend a type of paint? I came across a youtube video that makes me think spray paint could be use as long as it works well on a test section ().
    I plan on using 2"x 2"x 8' steel tubes for legs and supports. I'm not sure yet how I'll wind up modeling the cables, but I plan to make it actually store water for a spigot. Since the lid is removable, it could function as a rain barrel if I want to do that but I probably won't without a screen over the top. By putting a protractor on the photo, the legs seem to be at about an 85 degree angle. I learned how to calculate angles and sides years ago in school, but thanks to the internet, I took the easy way out and used http://www.calculator.net/triangle-calculator.html to calculate how much farther apart the legs are at the base, 1/3 of the way up, and 2/3 of the way up. Here's a diagram with a roughly 36 x 24 barrel, and roughly 8 foot steel tubing. I couldn't get it closer to scale if I tried.
    Untitled.gif

    water tank.JPG
     
  6. WindsorSpring

    WindsorSpring Member

    You are off to an excellent start with the drawing on the post preceding this one. Use it to make some templates in thick cardboard, thin plywood or sheet metal to verify your shaping. One template could be "U" shaped and cover the whole lower cross-section. The other could be "J" shaped to cover one half. You could also make one of the "J"-shaped slightly over-sized, fasten sandpaper to it and use that as a final shaping tool. Foam scraps make excellent foam-shapers as well, particularly for that last 1 or 2 thousandths you need to remove.
     
  7. trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017)

    trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017) Passed away September 22, 2017

    Wow!!! That is an EXCELLENT idea! That will make shaping so much easier! I will definitely do that! Thanks.
     
  8. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Brandon, I don't think most spray paints will work well directly with the foam. You may have to coat your hemisphere with a latex based product before being able to spray, unless the Krylon spray for plastics will not attack the foam.

    Additionally, keep in mind that 50 gallons of water will be 400 pounds, so the bases for the support legs will have to spread the weight over a large surface otherwise you will in danger of a topple if placed solely on dirt. Some load bearing calculations based on soil in your area are in order.
     
  9. trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017)

    trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017) Passed away September 22, 2017

    That's a very good and important point, Keith. I haven't decided on a final plan for the footing, but the fact that I need to somehow distribute the weight over as much surface area as possible has crossed my mind. The soil here can get very soft, even though it's as hard as a rock right now due to "extreme drought." I hadn't bothered to calculate how much 55 gallons of water will weigh, but I will make sure the footing is more than adequate. Earlier today, I used http://www.calculator.net/triangle-calculator.html to find that, at an 85 degree angle, the bottom of the 8' stilts will be 8.367" farther out than they will be at the top. Since the barrel is roughly 23" in diameter, the legs will be about 21 inches apart at the top, and almost 38" apart at the bottom. To test the strength of the steel tubes this evening, I laid a tube across a couple of folding chairs. Since I weigh about "36 gallons," I climbed on top of the tube, jumped up and down slightly, and even did it on one foot to put all my weight in on spot. Even that didn't bend it. If one horizontal tube can support 36 gallons jumping up and down, I'm confident that 4 tubes, almost vertical, can support the weight of 55 gallons of water.
    By the way, a friend of mine got me a black barrel and some more 2" square tubing today. I'm one step closer.
    20161024_191423.jpg
     
  10. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    If I may offer my two cents...

    You are proposing to place nearly 500 pounds of mass 8 feet above the ground without understanding the forces involved.
    1. Since your structure is very "top-heavy", not only will your foundation have to support the weight of the tank and its contents, it will have to resist any "overturning" or tipping forces.
    2. The tension placed upon the cable tower bracing will also affect forces that are transmitted through the members of the structure.

    My advice would be; build the model, but leave it empty.
     
  11. trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017)

    trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017) Passed away September 22, 2017

    I sincerely appreciate your concern. I can assure you that nothing is more important to me than safety. I wouldn't even think about filling it without first extensively over building the support tower, securely anchoring everything, setting the entire model on a rock-solid foundation (asphalt, concrete, or cement), setting it at least 15 feet away from anything else, and testing it by filling it in 10 gallon increments per day. It is still entirely possible that I will leave it empty as you suggest. By the way, I always welcome your opinion.
    -Brandon
     
  12. trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017)

    trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017) Passed away September 22, 2017

    I've always assumed that the prototype water tank was built for the mill owned and operated by the Kentucky Lumber Company from 1909 until 1929. However, without knowing for certain, I suppose it is possible that it served as the entire town's first water tank. In any case, is was decommissioned long before my time but remains an iconic landmark that has literally stood the tests of time. I recently found a few online photos of the water tank that were taken by a group of photography enthusiast. The photos are full of useful information for modeling. I've included links to give credit to the photographers.
    water tank 4.jpg water tank 1.jpg water tank 2.jpg water tank 3.jpg
    http://www.lamarleader.com/v2/conte...come-to-sulligent&AlbumID=5196&PhotoID=114911
    http://www.lamarleader.com/v2/conte...come-to-sulligent&PhotoID=114912&AlbumID=5196
    http://www.lamarleader.com/v2/conte...come-to-sulligent&PhotoID=114907&AlbumID=5196
    http://www.lamarleader.com/v2/conte...come-to-sulligent&AlbumID=5196&PhotoID=114906
     
    Joe Lovett likes this.
  13. Karl

    Karl 2008 Engineer of the Year Frisco.org Supporter

    Pattern making for a sphere.... http://www.winterwebb.com/sewing-a-sphere.html

    Although this calculator is intended for those who sew, it's application is suitable for anyone, who might wish to build a sphere from flexible, flat materials. The calculator requires two variables, the sphere radius and the number of segments that will be used to construct the sphere. The calculator will create a full-scale pattern formatted in PDF.
     
  14. trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017)

    trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017) Passed away September 22, 2017

    Thank you for sharing that link. That's a very nice alternative to stacking, gluing, and shaping Styrofoam insulation. My radius is 11." I think I can make a hemisphere pattern in 4 segments, actually using only 2 of the segments. Can any recommend a thin material that is pliable enough to bend, easy enough to cut, and that will also hold up outdoors?
     
  15. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    A few years ago, I purchased a 4' x 8' sheet of 0.020" polystyrene from a local company. It is flexible enough that segments cut from it could be bent and glued together. See if you can find a vendor near you. The local company here is Regal Plastics.
     
  16. Impressive project!
    Have you considered fiberglass cloth to cover the bowl shaped area? It would hold up outside and be paintable.
     
  17. trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017)

    trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017) Passed away September 22, 2017

    1. Thank you. 2. No... but I will. Thanks for the tip. This looks like a job for... my pastor. He owns and operates a small paint and body shop.
    https://www.amazon.com/3M-499-Fiberglass-Cloth/dp/B000BQSKQY
     
  18. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Neat project. I've worked in insurance long enough that the idea of making this functional makes my spleen curl - piggybacking off of Karl's comment, I would advise checking with my property insurer to determine how you'd be impacted by any partial or catastrophic failure - but I like the look that it'll convey. I'd guess anyone from Sulligent would get it!

    Best Regards,
     
  19. trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017)

    trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017) Passed away September 22, 2017

    Karl and Chris:
    I have given much thought to the idea of filling the barrel completely full. I don't need the water tower to function, but I certainly want it to function. I don't have to fill the barrel completely full to make it function. If it works with only 5-10 gallons of water, I'll be happy. Regardless of anything else, when it's all said and done, I will go to great lengths to make sure that the water tower is as unlikely to tip over as possible.
     
    modeltruckshop likes this.
  20. trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017)

    trainchaser007 (Brandon Adams RIP 9/22/2017) Passed away September 22, 2017

    I didn't get off of my butt and get as much done on the water tower as I thought I would, but I worked 14 hours Friday and SEC football was on all day Saturday. Despite that, I still managed to scratch the surface and begin work on the top supports of the stand. This is my third project to involve recycling scrap, 2"-square, steel tubing from a friend's workplace. I used the steel tubing and a 55-gallon, steel drum (also salvaged from the scrap pile at his workplace) to make two, half-drum, barbecue grills for our church. I also cut tubing and designed a set of steps to replace the ladders that were in our church's baptistery. I drilled holes and used bolts to assemble the grills, but my sister-in-law's husband and his brother took the tube pieces that I cut and my drawing and welded the tubing pieces together for me to assemble the stairs. Since I can't weld, I stocked up on 2 1/2" x 1/4" nuts and bolts, and a couple more titanium drill bits to assemble my water tower model. It's times like this that I really wish I could weld... or at least have heat vision. The base of the barrel has a diameter of 22.5". Once the steel portion is complete, I plan to cut a 28.5"-diameter circle out of 3/4" plywood. Next, I'll assemble the barrel and plywood to the steel by drilling holes through the lip of the barrel, plywood, and steel, so that bolts will go through the lip of the barrel, on down through the plywood, and on down through the steel tubing. Once that's assembled, I'm going to cut off the top of some leftover welded wire fencing and use it to make a handrail around the plywood walkway. I got the idea for the handrail from assembling an HO scale version of the water tower. When you look at the pictures below, keep in mind that I have not finished working on the four pieces you see. I cut the pieces to be 22.5 inches long so that the outside edges of the square support will be flush with the outside edge of the barrel, all the way around. To be continued...
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    20161029_221001.jpg 20161029_221100.jpg
    20161029_221140.jpg
     
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