Dismiss Notice
PLEASE READ THIS THREAD REGARDING SITE FUNDING AND SERVER CHANGES
Dismiss Notice
ANOTHER GREAT FRISCO RAFFLE!

Goodyear Tire Boxcars - 444000 Series Reconditioned 50' PS-1 Cars

Discussion in 'Operations' started by FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018), Nov 27, 2013.

  1. FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018)

    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018) Passed Away April 12, 2018 Frisco.org Supporter

    To All:

    Since the release by Intermountain of the 50 ft. PS1 rebuild of the 444000 class boxcar built with the specially coated interior for tire service (see photo and caption on page 64 of Molo's Frisco-Katy Color Guide), I have had a discussion with a couple of fellow Frisco modelers on the possible movements of these cars across the system.

    The caption says that the belief at the time was that their main loading points were the B.F. Goodrich plant in Miami, OK and the Goodyear plant in Lawton, OK. I believe that the way the tire business operated there were central supply warehouses in larger cities and individual retailers would be able to get what they needed there. In other words a distributor network of sorts.

    Having said that, I would like to start a discussion if possible of possible movements to various locations across the system. As an example, living here in Wichita a possible scenario would have been to load the tires at Lawton, move them online through Tulsa towards Ft. Scott and switch them off at Columbus, KS putting them on the train to Wichita. In Wichita they would be interchanged to the railroad that served the Goodyear distributor.

    If anyone has any scenarios or modifications to my thoughts, please feel free to add input. Also, if anyone knows where these distributors were in their specific towns, please post.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2023
    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018), Nov 27, 2013
    #1
  2. Rick McClellan

    Rick McClellan 2009 Engineer of the Year

    Bob,

    I missed out on the Intermountain cars. Do you know where I could get a few if any are left?

    Rick
     
    Rick McClellan, Nov 27, 2013
    #2
  3. bob_wintle

    bob_wintle Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Rick,

    There are 2 on eBay right now.

    Bob W.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2023
    bob_wintle, Nov 27, 2013
    #3
  4. cthart

    cthart Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2023
    cthart, Nov 27, 2013
    #4
  5. FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018)

    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018) Passed Away April 12, 2018 Frisco.org Supporter

    Rick:

    Call me about this.
     
    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018), Nov 27, 2013
    #5
  6. slsfrr (Jerome Lutzenberger RIP 9/1/2018)

    slsfrr (Jerome Lutzenberger RIP 9/1/2018) Engineer Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Bob,

    When Dayton Tire & Rubber opened it's plant in OKC (1970/71 or so) the Frisco shipped tires in as well as out of the plant. Not sure what the deal was but we spotted lots of box cars loaded with tires. That business went away in the early/mid 1970's. After that the only thing the Frisco shipped was in bound carbon black and tank cars of (?). Even the raw rubber was trucked in.

    Goodyear opened in the mid/late 1970's and the railroad got very little outbound tire business. Again mostly carbon black and tank cars. The exception was Goodyear used coal to run their plant and the Frisco got 10/15 cars a day off the FWD at Quanah. I found out latter it was loaded at Des Moines, NM being trucked from a mine near Raton, NM.

    Now Dayton is only a memory. Oklahoma City has tried to lease the buildings for other purposes with little success. Goodyear, however is going strong as ever. I don't believe they burn coal anymore though.

    Jerome
     
    slsfrr (Jerome Lutzenberger RIP 9/1/2018), Nov 27, 2013
    #6
    qaprr likes this.
  7. gjslsffan

    gjslsffan Staff Member Staff Member

    Do you remember whose hoppers the coal were delivered to the QA&P in? Frisco, ATSF??

    There were many coal mines around Southern CO and Northern NM, some were steel making coal, very hot & clean burning stuff.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2023
    gjslsffan, Nov 28, 2013
    #7
  8. bob_wintle

    bob_wintle Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Bob,

    Go read the post under Northeast Oklahoma Railroad it sums up really well the operations in and out of Miami, OK.

    SLSF903 posted it.

    Bob W.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2023
    bob_wintle, Nov 28, 2013
    #8
  9. slsfrr (Jerome Lutzenberger RIP 9/1/2018)

    slsfrr (Jerome Lutzenberger RIP 9/1/2018) Engineer Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Tom,

    I do not remember who's coal hoppers were used, but would imagine C&S/FW&D/BN. I believe the coal came out of York Canyon mine on the ATSF.

    The Colorado & Wyoming had a branch out of Trinidad that went to a load out, can't remember the name, west of Trinidad. They loaded unit trains and odd lots and interchanged it to the DRGW & ATSF at Trinidad.

    Back in the day that coal was loaded in unit trains and moved over the DRGW to the steel mill in Pueblo. Later DRGW abandoned their line to Trinidad and ran over the C&S from Walsenburg to Trinidad.

    They ran at least one train a year to maintain the trackage rights. Last I heard the C&W was abandoned but some other company re-laid 2 or 3 miles so the mines could truck coal to a load out.

    Not Frisco related, but interesting. As a footnote the C&S and DRGW both had their own railroad between Walsenburg and Southern Jct. (Pueblo). Thus double track, non signaled, side by side. C&S dispatched the north track and DRGW dispatched the south track.

    Jerome
    OKC
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2023
    slsfrr (Jerome Lutzenberger RIP 9/1/2018), Nov 28, 2013
    #9
    qaprr likes this.
  10. nickmolo

    nickmolo Member

    Bob,

    Some boxcar perhaps were sent to some local distribution warehouses, but the vast majority of these cars would be ping-ponging between car assembly plants and the tire plants.

    For instance, the routes would be toward KC plants, toward St. Louis plants and points east, toward Ft. Worth for the Arlington, TX GM plant on the Mopac, and southeast through Birmingham for Atlanta, GA Ford and GM plants.

    Of course you could go further out from these direct locations, like west coast plants.

    Regards,

    Nick
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2023
    nickmolo, Dec 9, 2013
    #10
  11. FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018)

    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018) Passed Away April 12, 2018 Frisco.org Supporter

    Nick and All:

    I never thought of that scenario but it makes perfect sense.

    Definitely would be appropriate for both Jim Senese's Kansas City Terminal and Rick McClellan's Frisco Northern Division among others.

    I own one and it may get lost and occasionally makes its way to Wichita for the local distributor.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2023
    FriscoFriend (Bob Hoover RIP 4/12/2018), Dec 11, 2013
    #11
  12. gjslsffan

    gjslsffan Staff Member Staff Member

    Thanks for the input and history.

    That's a very interesting part of our history, and for the most part, one of the best kept secretes in the country. I was on a ride on my old Harley Davidson (still have the bike) thru Weston CO on a ride around that part of Colorado and New Mexico back in I'm thinkin 1985-ish.

    The mine your referring to was/is the CF&I, Allen Mine. They had been on strike for a long time, had no idea at the time what that meant. But when coming around a curve, saw some bright Orange/Red & White, AKA Frisco painted Geeps that said Colorado & Wyoming on them coupled to some Oakway SD60's.

    Well I nearly went off the road, couldn't believe my eyes, had no idea they were up there. So I remember the mine, tracks and shops up in Weston, there was a turntable in El Segundo and an awfully friendly place to wet your whistle there too. Great people out there. I tried to hire for the C&W in Trinidad, but had no relatives to help me. Trinidad, now that/s a whole other story.

    Anyway, thanks for the trip down that road again.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2023
    gjslsffan, Dec 12, 2013
    #12
  13. fwober

    fwober Member

     
    fwober, Mar 9, 2017
    #13
  14. fwober

    fwober Member

    I just noticed your post, even thought it is 4 years later.

    I was a freight rate clerk on the MKT from around 1975 to 1980. Freight was shipped under tariffs. I may have rated shipments of tires, but I don't remember that commodity. Tires might have been shipped in the Southwest with SWL 2004 Southwestern Freight Bureau classification tariff.

    During this period and earlier, when there were more cars, the tire companies might have gotten point to point rates for stations where they shipped a lot of tires. If you find the sales department correspondence or tariffs for this traffic, it would give some answer to your questions about where shipped to.

    Michael Lowe
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2023
    fwober, Mar 9, 2017
    #14

Share This Page