E8B - Cabless Booster Unit Desirability - Inquiry

Discussion in 'E8A' started by FRISCO4503, Sep 12, 2012.

  1. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    While it is true that the express cars may have been equipped with a stove for the occupants, the passenger carrying cars that followed the express cars were not equipped to generate their own heat or air conditioning as I understand it.

    The express cars included steam lines so the steam could be passed to the passenger carrying cars.

    Some railroads even equipped TOFC equipment with steam lines so they could be paced on the head end.

    On the Frisco, you would sometimes see Seaboard Air Line (SAL) Flexi-Van cars on the head end of the Sunnyland.

    Paul
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2024
  2. Oldguy

    Oldguy Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Thanks Paul for the explanation.

    So in this case, the GP7 had the steam generator, and the steam line ran from the E8A, through the express cars, and then on to the passenger cars?

    I never realized that the head-end express cars would actually have anyone riding in them.

    Guards perhaps?
     
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  3. WindsorSpring

    WindsorSpring Member

    In the case of the E8A-GP-7-E8A consist, it is conceivable all three steam generators would be on-line to meet the demands of the longer train.

    In the case of an E8A-F3B/F7B/F9B-E8A, again, both E8A steam generators would be working but the F3B/F7B/F9B would at least have had a steam line pipe so steam from the lead locomotive could pass back through the consist.

    Was it Frisco practice to bring all available steam generators on-line?

    I am anxious to learn if this is correct.
     
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  4. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Messengers or baggage handlers.

    Not many, if any, would be occupied however.

    Paul
     
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  5. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    As I understand it, at least some of the Frisco's steam generator equipped GP7s only had steam connections on one end.

    I think it was the long hood end, so in the photograph Karl linked to, it is possible only the GP7 and rear E unit had their steam generators in operation.

    Only some of Frisco's freight B units had steam lines, so you cannot say both E units would have had their steam generators connected to the train in all cases.

    As I understand it, most of the steam line equipped freight B units were intended to be used alongside the FP7s for trains on secondary routes.

    I believe having all available steam generators on line was determined by demands on the particular train, including weather conditions.

    Paul
     
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  6. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    In looking through the locomotive diagrams from 1957, the following EMD B-units had through steam pipes for use with passenger locomotives including the E7A (EA7), E8A, FP7A and some GP7 units.

    F3B - SLSF 5117
    F7B - SLSF 5126-5134

    I had thought some of the F9B's were equipped with steam pipes as well, but that does not appear to be the case.

    None of the Alco FA-1 or FB-1 units carried steam piping or steam generators.

    Though in warm weather, every once in a while, an Alco cab unit found itself pulling a passenger train, usually an extra of some sort or a troop train.

    Ken
     
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  7. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Frisco.org Supporter

    There is a photograph of a Frisco troop extra around Fort Smith, AR with a four unit lash up of FA-1, GP7, GP7, FA-1 with a steam generator car.

    I believe it is one of Mike Condren's photographs.

    The two steam generator cars were always available if needed.

    Around 1960, one or both of them could be found parked at the Springfield depot.

    Tom G.
     
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  8. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    And remember the terrific two-part article by Larry Thomas titled "Ozark Pacers" in the November & December, 1984 issues of Passenger Train Journal.

    In the first article, Larry had a three picture section called "Off-beat motive power".

    Included were the following:

    - Alco FA-1 SLSF 5205 pulling The Sunnyland out of Kansas City with train No 107, after its normal E8A failed to pass a test in 1963. Art Riordan photograph.

    - Baldwin VO-1000 SLSF 222 pulling the Ft. Smith section of The Meteor in August, 1962, another last-minute substitution. Mike Condren picture.

    - GP7 SLSF 535 leading a backwards running sick E7A SLSF 2004 on train No 710 at Ft. Smith, AR. Lou Marre photograph.

    Anything can happen!

    Regarding my comment in my posting above that F3B SLSF 5117 had steam line pipes, I do not believe those were on it as delivered, but were added later.

    I am wondering if that was an experiment to see if a B-unit would be of help if the E units needed extra power, perhaps before the F7Bs with pipes were ordered.

    Just a guess.

    Ken
     
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  9. pbender

    pbender Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2024
  10. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    Yep, Paul and others are are correct.

    I take back my statement posted above.

    Frisco F9Bs SLSF 5145-5152 were also indeed good for freight or passenger service, and had steam line pipes.

    I based my wrong conclusion on my 1957 Frisco locomotive diagrams, which do not show any F9Bs with steam line pipes. But, later ones do.

    I wonder if the first 1957 diagram was incorrect, or if the SLSF added the piping later?

    Ken
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2024
  11. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    I am assuming that with a F9B in a Frisco passenger consist, when the train goes down a hill, the dynamic braking on the F9B would not be functional.

    The E7As, E8As, GP7s and FP7As had no controls to operate the dynamic brakes.

    Anybody know for sure if this is correct?

    Ken
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2024
  12. wmrx

    wmrx MP Trainmaster

    Ken,

    You are correct.

    If the lead unit is not equipped with dynamic brakes, there is no way to operate and control any of the trailing units that might be dynamic brake equipped.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2024

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