I have a question about the two small lights, located one on each sides of the nose of the GP35s. I have noticed some of these lights seemed to be painted over on some locomotive power of various models. Were these light used by the SLSF on their GP35s? If not, were they usually painted over or just not used? Forgive me by I am not sure of the proper term for these lights.
I assume you are talking about the two lights on either side of the face of the nose as opposed to the Gyralite. The two lights you see are class lights. On the lead locomotive of a regular, or scheduled, train they were not lit. For a locomotive running as the lead engine of an extra train, they would be lit white. If the lead engine was on the head of any section of a multi-section train, other than the last section, the class lights would be green. These supplanted, and then later, replaced flags. As Karl has pointed out, SLSF 754 below is a GP40-2, but I picked it out to distinguish between the Pyle National Gyralite and the class lights.
Thank you for the information. Yes, that is the term, class lights. I thought none of the GP35s had gyralights though. Can you define "extra train" and "multi section train" please? Google did not produce much.
In today's railroading with irregular schedules, track warrants, etc., do they even bother with class lights any more? Tom G.
Derrick, There are two basic type of trains, regular and extra. Regular Train: A train authorized by time table schedule. Extra Train: A train not authorized by time table schedule. Section: One of two or more trains running on the same schedule, displaying signals or for which signals are displayed. Colored class lights and colored flags help opposing trains and other railroaders visually identify the type of train. A train displaying no class lights and/or flags is a regular train. A train displaying green class lights and/or flags is a section of a regular train. Each subsequent section will also display green signals, except the last section, no class signals displayed. A train displaying white class lights and/or flags is an extra train. Strongly recommend anyone interested in railroads and railroad operations to obtain a copy of their railroad's book of rules. The modern version on the Frisco is Rules of The Transportation Department, effective March 1, 1957. This is a valuable tool for understanding how and why railroads work. Hope this helps. Thanks! Mark
Thanks Mark. This explains why most pictures and videos of Frisco lead power do not have the class lights on. I always thought they were non functional on most units. Now I know.
To give Dricketts and anyone else that wants to know what it looks like with all the lights operational including head, roof beacon, gyrolite and class lights check this video out of a lighting package I did Ethan
In today's world, everything is dispatched as an extra, and nothing has timetable authority to exist as a train. Class lamps are superfluous.
Mark Davidson previously linked this Flickr photo of GP38AC SLSF 659 at Vinita, OK. Note that the class lights are illuminated, indicating an extra train. http://www.flickr.com/photos/dwdavidson/3725667566/sizes/l/ Best Regards,
Bob, In your example of the two section El Capitan, the first section would display signals and run as First No 21 (west) or First No 22 (east) and the second section would run as Second No 21 (west) or Second No 22 (east) and would not display signals. Both sections are one train, running as 2 sections. Both sections have the same schedule. Remember, a schedule is in effect for 12 hours after their time at each station unless fullfilled, annulled or superseded. This is important beacuse a train operating in sections is just like one continuous train from the first section until the markers on the last section. Hope this helps. Thanks! Mark
Back during WWII when the Frisco was still basically using train orders to dispatch trains, the old heads told me of meeting as many as eight sections of a scheduled train. Depending on how many they were to meet at a particular siding, they would have to pay close attention to the class lights/flags. As a train would pass, if it was carrying green, and they were restricted for more sections, they would remain at the siding. If the last section passed it would have no class lights/flags displayed, and they could then proceed. On page 173 of Frisco Power by Joe Collias is an example of a train order No 92 of March 10, 1944 in which multiple sections of multiple regular scheduled trains are being dispatched. When one considers the conditions under which the engine crews worked, dimly lit cabs, bouncing locomotives, complexity of train orders, etc., it is amazing that the trains moved as safely as they did. If someone can tell me if it is legal to scan and post this train order, I will try to do so to show how complicated the orders were at that time. If you can scan it yourself, please do so, as I believe it is very interesting to see. Terry
There is no porblem with scanning and posting a train order, my friend, Richard D. Baker, owns one of the fromost train order collections in the country, and he does it all of the time.
This train order is in a book, and that is the reason I wondered if I could post it. I do own train orders that I bought, and I know I could scan them, but since this one is in a book, I did not know. Let me know if it is still okay since it is in a copyrighted book. Terry
The train orders would not be copyrighted material if they were created by the railroad and discarded. In this case of course, someone pulled them from the trash and that's why we have them.
Terry, I can appreciate your desire to post this fascinating document, and Keith is correct that posting a railroad train order (TO) is fine. But taking one from a published text without permission and attribution just is not kosher. Why not ask Joe permission to post the document?
I will concede that the train order image, as posted in the book, may be construed as copyrighted material, but only the image taken from the book. The content of the train order cannot be copyrighted by the book author since he was not the original creator of the document. Attached is my created transcribed version of the order. Pardon my printing, but hey, the train crews had to deal with individual handwriting anyway.
