I have a few F3 detail questions I would like some help with please. 1. What year did SLSF begin applying the 'austerity' scheme to the F3s? 2. Mike Condren's Frisco locomotive photograph FR208 shows F3A SLSF 5008 with a light installed in the door on the nose of the cab. From most pictures I have seen, this is not common on Frisco's F3As and almost certainly must have been installed later in its service life. When and why would such a change have been effected on F3A SLSF 5008? Was this the result of a repair after a wreck? 3. Are there any other F3As with the light in the nose door?
1) As I recall, the black and yellow "austerity" paint scheme started to show up on F3, F7, FP7, F9, FA-q and FB-1 units in the very early 1960s. I do not have an exact date when the first showed up, but it was certainly a "black day". Ha! Though it likely saved some money, it was not very attractive on A-units in my opinion. The re-paints occurred during major shop work. Wreck repair could certainly be another reason. 2) I am not sure why some units got the new nose door with the headlight verses others that never received it. It was an easy upgrade. Put on a new door with the dual sealed beam headlight built in, and wire it up. During this period, the Frisco was concerned about the number of grade crossing events they were experiencing, and perhaps the addition of a number of units with two headlight mounts was an attempt to obtain more visibility. One of the two light mounts usually carried a Pyle or Mars oscillating light, usually the upper one. 3) I took a quick pass through my F3A pictures and found the following Frisco F3As with a door mounted second headlight assembly - SLSF 5004, SLSF 5008, SLSF 5012, SLSF 5014. The two F3As rebuilt into F9As, SLSF 5005 and 5007, also carried the second headlight in the nose door. Ken
1964 might be a good guess on the "cigar band" austerity scheme. It is mentioned somewhere in the Marre Frisco Diesel Power book. Ken you probably have the Arthur Johnson photograph of FA-1 SLSF 5203 just outside the paint shop with some of the masking still on it. That is an early application of that scheme. Check the date of that photograph. I cannot locate my copy of Frisco Diesel Power or that photograph. Tom
Well, if the cost reduction "simplified" paint concept for the F's was concurrent with the simplification of the GP7 and other black and yellow schemes, then it could even date to at least April of 1961. Was not there a paint phase date chart somewhere in one of the FMIG newsletters? Andre
I have looked through my stack of Arthur Johnson and R Carlson Frisco photographs. Carlson had one of F3A SLSF 5009 carrying a nose door light in 1960, wearing the original black and yellow paint scheme. Ken
Tom makes a good point. Probably a higher percentage of the repowered Alco FA-1s got the addition of a headlight in the nose door than did the F3As. That is because the Alcos received a major shopping at EMD in 1955-1957 to get their EMD 567 repowering. Likely at the same time, they got the nose door headlight treatment. Later, many of them also got the austerity scheme. K
I have just been looking at Marre's Frisco Diesel Power, and I cannot seem to find anything about the "cigar band" paint scheme dates. There is a reference to the Mandarin orange and white scheme having begun in 1965. Also there does not seem to be rhyme or reason as to when or which FA-1s, F3As and F7As got Mars lights. Application of Mars lights and repowering of the FA-1s and FB-1s do not seem to be connected either. I guess if you were modeling a particular unit, you need to refer to photographs. Tom
For some reason, 1962 sounds about right for the application of the "austerity" livery. I will try to verify this if possible. Greg
Without double checking, I recall that a couple of units had been in accidents and that when they were rebuilt, they had door lights installed. I know F3A SLSF 5009 was one of them. Not too sure just when this occurred.
Looking through the resources that are available to me, I made a study recently of which F units had double headlights at some time in their service life. F3As that had them were SLSF 5008, SLSF 5009, SLSF 5012 (64), and SLSF 5017. Unit numbers SLSF 5005 and SLSF 5007 had them, but I assume these were added when they were rebuilt into F9As in 1954. I agree with Tom that the austerity paint scheme started about 1964, as I have not seen any dated photographs of the scheme before then. Rich
From the FMIG Newsletters way back machine, read Frisco modelers Information Group (FMIG) Index: NL #41 has a photograph of F3A SLSF 5002 at Lindenwood Yard in the early 1950s, and F3A SLSF 5013 in a New York Air Brake Company advertisement from March, 1955. In that same issue from the reprint of the March, 1955 Railway Locomotives & Cars article, F3A SLSF 5005 is shown being repaired at the Springfield Diesel Shop. While not a prototype, NL #21, Summer 1979, has a J. McCullough article on modeling F3A SLSF 5002. I think there is also a photograph of Doug Hughes' F3A SLSF 62 in NL #16, Ted Johnson's F3A in NL #43, and Rick McClellan's F3B SLSF 5109 in FMIG Lines NL #106. Those are the only photographs that I am finding in the index. I have not taken a look at these and probably will not be able to do so today. As always, please let me know if anyone notices errors, etc. in the index so that I can update it. Best Regards,
Ken, I think the Mars light in the door was due to the fact that it was added by the Frisco because that was not the typical installation from EMD. I refer you to the Frisco E7A (EA7) and E8As, all had the Mars light on top and the headlight in the nose door.
Yep, It was easy to buy a new front nose door from EMD that had the light hole and mounting platform, etc. in it, then add a Pyle or Mars oscillating light as desired. An easy upgrade. Ken
Andre, I realize that I really did not address your question in my post citing F3A references in the FMIG Newsletters. There does not appear to be a first-generation paint phase chart. I know there is one for the GP7s that Mike Condren included. His website does have a photograph of paint scheme FR-F2a, which shows F7A SLSF 5023 in the "cigar band" in Fayetteville, AR on 11/3/1964. This seems to jive with what others have cited. Please see the following. http://condrenrails.com/Frisco/Frisco_PaintShop_Road_Freight_Units.htm Furthermore, Mike's "Paint Shop" article on the E-unit paint schemes describes FR-P5, the "cigar band" scheme for the famous horse units. He notes that "This scheme was an attempt at uniformity in cab-unit paint schemes as it was contemporary with a similar scheme, except for colors, which was being applied to the EMD and ALCO road freight units". Further, he cites the era used as 1965-1967. Accordingly, I think we can safely say that this scheme debuted on the covered wagons in late 1964. Best Regards,
