FP7A - Oscillating Warning Lights - Mars / Pyle National Light - Fuel Tank Skirts Removal - Inquiry

Discussion in 'FP7' started by yardmaster, Jul 20, 2010.

  1. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Paul Bender's post on F-units permitted in passenger service triggered a thought that first came about while indexing the FMIG Newsletters.

    When did the FP7A units receive the second oscillating headlight, and when were the fuel tank skirtings removed?

    Some references and dates:

    Ken Wulfert's "Enid" collections shows post-renumbered FP7A SLSF 41, former SLSF 5041, and FP7A SLSF 50. former SLSF 5050, both with oscillating lights, dual headlights, and sans skirting.

    FMIG Newsletter #17, August 1978, has two photographs with information.

    In that issue, Glenn Young inquired: "Does anyone have a slide/negative of an FP7A without "Mars lights"?

    Doug Hughes replied: "My guess is that they were delivered without Mars lights and they were added later."

    Photographs in Newsletter #17:

    FP7A SLSF 5045 at Springfield, 1951 - single headlight. Arthur Johnson photograph.

    FP7A SLSF 5047 at Springfield, 1951 - single headlight. H. Vollrath photograph.

    FMIG Newsletter #19, February 1979, shows a photograph of the following

    FP7A SLSF 50, former SLSF 5050, at Springhill, KS - Dual headlights and side skirts removed, 1969. H. Vollrath photograph.

    Other photographs I have seen:

    FP7A SLSF 5042 - Unknown location, date and photographer. Full skirt and single-headlight.

    FP7A SLSF 5047 - Ft. Smith, AR, 1964, M. Condren. Dual headlights with side skirts removed.

    Thoughts?
     
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  2. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Frisco.org Supporter

    There does not seem to be a hard and fast date for these changes.

    But judging from photographs, the oscillating, Mars or Gyralite, lights were added in the mid-1950s and skirts were starting to be removed about 1960.

    The firecracker antennas were added in the mid to late 1950s.

    And the FP7As always had a single cluster of horns, Leslie or Nathan, over the engineers seat.

    I never saw any documentation of these changes, all my observations are eyewitness or from photographs.

    Tom
     
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  3. Iantha_Branch

    Iantha_Branch Member

    The oscillating Mars light is different from the Gyralite.

    F and E units had Mars lights if they were so equipped.

    The Mars light "swirrled" in a figure 8.

    Most of the Second Generation diesels had Gyralites, not Mars lights.

    The Gyroalitet just goes in a circle.

    If I am wrong on any of this, let me know and I will change it, but this is my understanding of oscillating Mars lights and Gyralites.
     
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  4. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Frisco.org Supporter

    I think Mars and Gyralites are or were products from two different manufacturers.

    They both made add-on lights for E and F units long before the 2nd generation "bubble gum" cab top lights came along.

    One shone the warning light in a figure-eight, the other in a circular pattern.

    Which one Ken W.?

    Tom
     
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  5. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    There were three patterns I saw.

    - Sideways figure 8 - I think this was the Mars light.

    - Upper 180 degree circle arc, back and forth. I do not know the manufacturer but SLSF used these as well as the Mars.

    - Complete 360 degree circle aimed off center. I am not sure I saw these on SLSF but I saw them somewhere here.

    Possibly on the Gulf, Mobile and Ohio (GM&O), Missouri Pacific (MoP), Wabash?

    Ken
     
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  6. TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020)

    TAG1014 (Tom Galbraith RIP 7/15/2020) Passed Away July 15, 2020 Frisco.org Supporter

    Ken.

    I think Katy was the other railroad we were chatting about.

    Whichever one the Frisco used, the M-K-T had the other one.

    Or at least some of them.

    Tom
     
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  7. gbmott

    gbmott Member

    I am out of the country but can provide some more data points when I return.

    Meantime I know for a fact that FP7A SLSF 5047 had both Mars light and side skirts on 1/31/1958.

    That was the last day of operation of No 709 and No 710 between Fort Smith, AR and Paris, TX.

    She had lost her skirts by 7/4/1964.

    Gordon
     
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  8. klrwhizkid

    klrwhizkid Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    What is traditionally called a Mars light was manufactured by the Mars Signal Light Company.

    Their product transcribed a figure-eight motion, typically installed to display a mostly horizontal sweep.

    Searches for a good video of a railroad Mars Light yielded no real good illustrations.

    The Gyralite was manufactured by Pyle National Company.

    Their product had the motion of the light in a circular or elliptical pattern.

    See this video of an operating Gyralite at the following link.

     
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  9. meteor910

    meteor910 2009 Engineer of the Year Staff Member Frisco.org Supporter

    The Frisco also had ones that moved in an upper 180 degree arc as I noted above.

    I do not know who the manufacturer was, but I remember seeing more of these than Mars figure-8 lights on No 9, The Meteor, during my MSM years, 1960-1964.

    When we went down to the depot to take a study break and watch No 9, I always went up to the head end to watch and hear him start up.

    It was really neat to see the light flash on the buildings when he lit it again.

    You could also hear the whine of the light motor until he advanced the throttle on his four EMG 16-567s!

    Ken
     
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  10. yardmaster

    yardmaster Administrator Staff Member Administrator Frisco.org Supporter

    Gordon,

    That is as close to a specific date that I have seen, and the first tidbit that indicates that the FP7s would have had both Mars lights AND full skirting simultaneously.

    The photographic evidence I had seen pointed to no Mars and full skirts or Mars lights and no skirts.

    Thanks to all for clarifying, too. Interesting stuff on the full array of lights.

    Thank goodness we are not Espee modelers. Some of their early diesels look like a spider's eyes.

    As a kid, when we would return to Chaffee from Friday night trips to Cape Girardeau, I vividly recall seeing traffic on the Cotton Belt (SSW) line with the 360-degree lights on the lead locomotive on the road between Illmo/Scott City and Rockview.

    But, I never knew if it was SSW/SP or MoP motive power.
     
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  11. gbmott

    gbmott Member

    OK, a few more data points:

    SLSF 5049 - Mars light, no skirts - 7/28/1962
    SLSF 5048 - Mars light with skirts - 12/21/1958
    SLSF 5047 - Mars light with skirts - 1/31/1958
    SLSF 5046 - Mars light, no skirts - 3/1964
    SLSF 5045 - Mars light, no skirts - 6/16/1961
    SLSF 5044 - Mars light, no skirts - 7/20/1962
    SLSF 5040 - Mars light, no skirts - 3/24/1962

    Sort of looks like around 1960 was when skirts started being removed, which is about when they started coming off the E-units also.

    My recollection is that the Mars lights appeared around 1956, though it could have been even earlier.

    Gordon
     
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  12. gbmott

    gbmott Member

    OK, some more.

    I remembered photographing a FP7A in Oklahoma City when Louis Marre's father took both of us over there for the Oklahoma Semicentennial.

    I could not remember when that was. Now I see that Louis published that in Frisco Diesel Power.

    The date is summer 1957 and SLSF 5047 has both a Mars light and skirts.

    There are other data points in that book.

    SLSF 5049 - both Mars light and skirts - 11/27/1954
    SLSF 5050 - Mars light but no skirts - 12/31/1961

    Also be aware that at least a handful of other F-units got Mars or some kind of oscillating light as well, including the following units.

    F9A SLSF 5005 (both F3Au rebuilds, see next
    F9A SLSF 5007
    F7A SLSF 5012
    F7A SLSF 5021

    Incidentally, I will correct an error on page 82 of Frisco Diesel Power. My photograph of F9A SLSF 5006 and friends taken 7/31/1964 was not at Lawton, OK but at Quanah, TX.

    This set of F units had just delivered a train to the AT&SF.

    The confusion arose because I was at Ft. Sill in Lawton, OK at the time in Reserve Officer Training Camp (ROTC) summer camp.

    Lou thought that was where I took the photograph.
     
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