4-8-2 - Frisco 1522 - Who Was Or Were The Engineer(s) On Her Grand Farewell 9/28-29/2002 - Inquiry

Howdy,

I was watching a video of 4-8-2 SLSF 1522's last run from St. Louis to points west and back.

The video was aired on RFDTV's Trains and Locomotives show. The title was "A Grand Farewell". SLSF 1522 had a load of passenger cars from many roads. It was followed by a some diesel, not sure what it was, maybe a Genesis. It looked like one of those boxy new age diesel things Amtrak operates.

As the video showed clips of SLSF 1522 roaring up and down the grades, speeding across the flats, and making stops along the way, it occurred to me that someone had to one, know the route, grades, etc., and two, know how to engineer and fire a steam locomotive, especially, a 1500 class Mountain.

Does anyone know who had such skills and answered the call?

Seems like those skills would have long vanished from one person long ago.

Best regards,

Mike

 

There were three of us in the St. Louis Steam Train Association (SLSTA) who were FRA certified engineers on the 4-8-2 SLSF 1522 from 1988 until her retirement in 2002.

One was an engineer on the BN at the time. He arranged for one other guy and me to attend the BN's Engineer Training School in Overland Park, KS. There we learned the basics of air brake, train handling, rules and signals. There was a long test at the end of the course, along with sessions in the simulator.

As for handling the steam engine, for some reason I retained a lot of the stories my Dad had told when I was growing up. Do not ask me how, most days I cannot remember breakfast.

There were a couple of folks who were involved in our restoration who had been involved with other engines such as the Chesapeake and Ohio (C&O) 614 and Reading 2100, who passed along hints and tips about running.

Neither of them had fired an oil burner, so we read a lot of the Frisco and Santa Fe training manuals for firing oil. Early on, a retired Frisco engineer, Gilbert Wofford, gave us tips on firing, but never went on the road with us.

Regardless of where we were operating, the railroad rules required that a pilot crew accompany us. Most of them were a big help with telling us that were running where the grades, sags and signals were, etc. From time to time, we would let them sit down for a few miles at the throttle and most enjoyed it immensely.

I had a young engineer pilot down in Texas on the Sunset Route back to Houston, TX who I let sit down for 20 miles or so at track speed of 60 who was thrilled to death. His parents were on the train, so I am sure he will always remember that trip. Same with another Pilot from Emporia, KS to Topeka, KS.

We had regular rules exams, safety meetings and took the responsibility very seriously. The payoff to all of that was being treated as railroaders when we were on the property. It was a gratifying experience.

The SLSTA was considered a railroad in the eyes of the FRA. I was Chief Mechanical Officer from 1988-2002 and had to deal with them with inspections and such. We enjoyed a very good reputation with the FRA as well as Amtrak.

Our equipment was inspected by Dr. Doom, a noted Amtrak car inspector who was impressed with our operation. When we applied to run under their auspices, one of their main guys came to inspect the locomotive and cars and gave us a clean bill of health.

I enjoyed the privilege of always being the engineer east out of Newburg, MO up Rolla Hill at least to Cuba, MO and sometimes all the way in to St. Louis. I ran west out of Newburg twice up Dixon Hill.

Newburg already held a fascination for me to model, but the 15 or so times out of Newburg at the throttle nailed it down. Dad's service was on the Rolla Subdivision, so I know somewhere up there he was enjoying it.

On the farewell trips, I ran from Cuba-Newburg-Stanton both days.

 

Howdy Don,

I knew you had worked on 4-8-2 SLSF 1522, but did not know you were at the throttle.

What a great story. I imagine there was a ton of work and things to remember, but worth every minute.

Thanks for sharing the details of operations, it is very interesting.

Happy trails,

Mike

 

I think when if it was totaled up, each of us would have had a minimum of 5000 miles at the throttle.

Lotta sweat and tears, but the payoff was truly something.

 

Indeed, what dreams are made of.

Mike

 

Dad's seniority date in engine service was 1916 as a fireman.

He was still in service when he was killed in an automobile accident in 1964. At that time he was an engineer in regular passenger service. His service was on the last passenger train left.

He was cut off during the depression for a while and worked as a motorcycle officer in Maplewood, MO, drove a car for Scullin Steel and probably had other stuff going on to keep food on the table until business picked up.

He was promoted to Engineer in 1937, if I recall. He worked on the Scissorbill for a short time when he first went to work for the Frisco. I think he may have worked for the MP for a short time before coming over to the Frisco in 1916. Other than that he was strictly St. Louis-Newburg on the Rolla Subdivision until he died.

His brother, my Uncle Joe, worked as a hostler at Lindenwood Yard back in the 1930s. I am not sure of the dates.

My sister married a fireman on the Rolla Subdivision in 1946, I think. He bid on the firing job on the Salem Branch. He stayed there until about 1955, when he moved back to St. Louis. He was the regular engineer on the Chrysler Turn when he died.

I did not just stray into railroading. Never worked for one, but did pass the physical and rules test in 1958 to go firing, but then they started cutting firemen off. Almost hired out on the Missouri Pacific (MP) at the same time, but the same situation transpired.

Worked at a service station for a couple years, got married, joined the Army and when I got out in 1965 went to work for Sunnen Products in Maplewood, MO. Worked all through the shop up to tool and die maker, then went into management.

Left there in 1992, went to Sauer Machine Company in Kirkwood, MO for ten years. I retired in 2003 and have not looked back since. Do not miss work a bit.

Now HO Newburg beckons.

 

Mike,

Here is a photograph I took of SLSF 1522 Engineer Don Wirth posing with our favorite Mountain at St. Louis Union Station depot back in the early days of SLSF 1522's SLSTA career.

Ken

 

Sherrel ,

They both look great, I think it is just a matter of personal preference.

I think I like the wide door best because SLSF 1501 which originally as-built had the small door was sitting down at Rolla, MO. It was the first Frisco 1500 I got to know.

See my Roster Tale article in the Frisco Museum's All Aboard magazine, Volume 3 Number 9, February 1989.

A poll would be fine with me. Sounds like a fun idea. I would bet on the small door winning.

Most of the 4-8-2 1500s carried the small door, as did SLSF 1522 of course. SLSF 1522 earned all kinds of great exposure from its good looks over the past 20 years.

Perhaps Don, or someone else who has a lot of Frisco steam photographs, could post large door and small door side-by-side views and we will see.

Ken

 

Here is the best I can offer for a front end mug shot of a Frisco 4-8-2 1500 with the large smokebox door. This, of course, is SLSF 1501, which is on display in Rolla, MO. I took this photograph in either late 1960 or early 1961 while a Freshman at Missouri School of Mines (MSM).

Bear in mind this photograph shows SLSF 1501 after she had been out in the weather for 5 or 6 years while on static display. She is not quite as spiffy as is SLSF 1522 in my earlier posting above in the St. Louis Union Station depot picture with Don.

What say you regarding the Frisco 1500s - large door or small door?

Ken

 

One must always remember to attach the photograph before hitting the "submit" button!

Sorry about that!

Ken